Steve Huff - GXR vs NEX-7

rxmd said:
I'm not sure whether what you mean by the CV "retro-focus" 21, 25 and 35 - you may have your definitions mixed up. I'd prefer a "problematic" wideangle, like the 15 Heliar, to a less problematic one like the 25 or 35 - the results from the latter just wouldn't illustrate the problem as well.
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Whatever. We already know all about the heliars. The skopars are more popular and have not been tested. They ARE problematic and the effects are obvious.

Not to mention they are sharper than the 15, which is more useful in comparison with GXR
 
bwcolor said:
Looks like Sony is hard at work abusing their customers. SonyStyle has backtracked on the USA ship date of 11/11/11 and they now have many upset customers.
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Remember the Thai flood was not planned by Sony and many people have lost their lives and homes - a little more important than mere camera manufacturing, I believe.
 
Disappointment does not equal abuse. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that it would take Sony three weeks to determine 1) the extent of the damage to their own facilities and those of parts suppliers; 2) how long it would take them to get production up and running again (after they determined which product lines to prioritize), and 3) how to allocate whatever stock survived the flood.

In all likelihood Sony's legal council was against any premature announcement of delay or officially rescheduling the shipment date since this impacts everything from contractual obligations to suppliers/distributors to quarterly revenue projections. A few ticked off customers are one thing, but lawsuits from manufacturing partners and angry stockholders something else entirely.

I'd be willing to cut them some slack on this one. Generally Sony seems competent at managing their supply chain, unlike other camera manufacturers (ahem, Panasonic) who simply fail to meet their own shipment dates again, and again.
 
jsrockit said:
If its customers are truly upset, f them. I'm sure Sony wanted the flood to come and ruin its facilities. 🙄
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Everyone was willing to cut Sony huge slack in this department. However we you call to ask if the camera will be understandably delayed they say no it will not. "They" being imposherished call center people who sony has not bothered to clue in. Even today, they are telling people to ignore the emails about the delayed launch, and that their camera will ship.

You are telling me, that, say, you buy a CV 35/1.2 from me, paypal me, and I tell you I'm shipping, but don't. You call and my sister says no problem its going tomorrow. Then I send you an email saying my dog is sick and I don't know when I'll send it. Then you call to get your paypal back and my mom says, oh the dog is fine, he'll ship tommorrow----and don't---you will not be frustrated?

You will be furious, so please get off the high horse.

And then, when you mentioned the fiasco to your buds, they said, oh, you hate dogs, eh?

Don't blame the suffering on those who just wish they knew if they could get a camera or not. That is not unreasonable. That's what has them in a tizzy--not the fact they don't get their camera. That's what they expected.

You would not behave like that--you'd just say right when your factory went under water, hey here's your paypal back, we have x number of cameras but we are holding them to be fair, or we have no cameras, or hey, you are a jerk and you don't get one.

And because you were honest we'd love you. 😉
 
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leicashot said:
Thanks, officially, the site is not yet launched and I'm currently moving countries so it's gone on hold till next week.

Including the M8 may be possible but not sure about getting ahold of the R-D1. I'd also rather work with current cameras to keep things, well, current 😉
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Including the M8 would be very interesting.

Cheers, mate/dude!
 
leicashot said:
Remember the Thai flood was not planned by Sony and many people have lost their lives and homes - a little more important than mere camera manufacturing, I believe.
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My remarks have nothing to do with the flood. I also do not state that the camera is more important than what has gone on in Thailand. I also think that the early stages of Islamic fundamentalist genocide in Nigeria is important and my remarks have nothing to do with this either. Sony USA repeatedly represented the ship date of the NEX-7 as 11/11/11. This continued with phone conversations and repeated requests for information made by many people that had purchased and were considering purchase. In the last 36-48 hours Sony decided to tell these customers that what they had been told was not correct and there was no delivery date known at this time. I would be out of business if I ran my business in this fashion. This hasn't anything to do with the flood. It has everything to do with Sony's treatment of those that relied upon accurate information. Sony should not have posted and repeatedly reassured customers with a set ship date if there was some question as to if they would be able to meet this date. People have sold gear and purchased gear based on these assurances. Amazon has stated all along that they did not know when the camera would be released. I ordered through Amazon and I'm fine with not knowing, but at least Amazon played it straight. Since I haven't ordered through Sony, I am not one of those that relied upon these representations, but I think that Sony's secrecy has not served them, nor their customers best interest. I have no idea how this will work out. Now, many people have called Sony and their representatives have in some cases, told the caller that the delay Emails were sent in error. Clearly, things at Sony USA are ... well.. a mess.
 
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jsrockit said:
If its customers are truly upset, f them. I'm sure Sony wanted the flood to come and ruin its facilities. 🙄
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I don't get your remarks. I doubt that many customers are upset that the NEX-7 will be in short supply, or unavailable. I believe that is is Sony's representation of the situation that is in question. As mentioned above, I ordered from Amazon and am much more excited about the upcoming Fuji camera. So, it is of little consequence to me if I get a camera, or not.
 
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bwcolor said:
My remarks have nothing to do with the flood. I also do not state that the camera is more important than what has gone on in Thailand. I also think that the early stages of Islamic fundamentalist genocide in Nigeria is important and my remarks have nothing to do with this either. Sony USA repeatedly represented the ship date of the NEX-7 as 11/11/11. This continued with phone conversations and repeated requests for information made by many people that had purchased and were considering purchase. In the last 36-48 hours Sony decided to tell these customers that what they had been told was not correct and there was no delivery date known at this time. I would be out of business if I ran my business in this fashion. This hasn't anything to do with the flood. It has everything to do with Sony's treatment of those that relied upon accurate information. Sony should not have posted and repeatedly reassured customers with a set ship date if there was some question as to if they would be able to meet this date. People have sold gear and purchased gear based on these assurances. Amazon has stated all along that they did not know when the camera would be released. I ordered through Amazon and I'm fine with not knowing, but at least Amazon played it straight. Since I haven't ordered through Sony, I am not one of those that relied upon these representations, but I think that Sony's secrecy has not served them, nor their customers best interest.
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Understandable, but at the end of the day this may not be such a black and white simple solution for Sony. I doubt it is their intention to delay such a product but they are and I would bet for good reason. In the meantime, getting upset won't make it arrive any sooner, nor will your photography suffer. I recently tested the A-77 and if that's anything to go by image quality wise, the NEX-7 is not going to be all everyone had hoped.

I don't mean to be argumentative, just feel that there's nothing gained by being upset over a camera launch, especially when there are more important things to consider in this equation, such as the lives lost and ruined during this whole process. Cheers
 
I agree. I have little experience with Sony cameras. For me, as the days went on, the NEX-7 seemed less appealing. The A77 and NEX7 images have been less than impressive. Long ago, I cancelled my purchase of E-Mount lenses. I am not angry. I am of the opinion that Sony mistreated their customers. Nothing more. I don't believe that anyone is suggesting that a camera launch is somehow more important than a major tragedy. What does bother me is that people constantly bring up the flood as if someone that discusses something else doesn't get that there is a real problem in Thailand. I've been there. I spent time helping in villages, and in an orphanage in the extreme North. Spent more than 10K of my own money in such endeavors. So, can we agree that you and many others are good people and care and not imply that others don't. Thank You..
 
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bwcolor said:
I agree. I have little experience with Sony cameras. For me, as the days went on, the NEX-7 seemed less appealing. The A77 and NEX7 images have been less than impressive. Long ago, I cancelled my purchase of E-Mount lenses. I am not angry. I am of the opinion that Sony mistreated their customers. Nothing more. I don't believe that anyone is suggesting that a camera launch is somehow more important than a major tragedy. What does bother me is that people constantly bring up the flood as if someone that discusses something else doesn't get that there is a real problem in Thailand. I've been there. I spent time helping in villages, and in an orphanage in the extreme North. Spent more than 10K of my own money in such endeavors. So, can we agree that you and many others are good people and care and not imply that others don't. Thank You..
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Absolutely. I also think that the NEX-7 is a great camera....with a rushed sensor. The A77 images were lacking a lot of detail and displayed noise at ISO 100
 
leicashot said:
Absolutely. I also think that the NEX-7 is a great camera....with a rushed sensor. The A77 images were lacking a lot of detail and displayed noise at ISO 100
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Well...this..looks pretty decent to me 🙂

If fact it looks friggin fantastic. Compare to GXR---though to be fair, not the same lens. Thanks, Steve 🙁
 
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uhoh7 said:
You will be furious, so please get off the high horse.
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I was never on a high horse... it may be frustrating, but I would not be furious. Also, there is a difference between a sale between two individuals on the internet (where there is potential for fraud) and dealing with a company launching a new product during a time when its facilities are flooded.

By the way, I dealt with this with the X100 and the disasters in Japan. Sure, I wanted the camera, but I could not be selfish enough to be truly angry at Fuji for something they could not control.

Now, clueless customer service? Yes, I hate them generally speaking, so I'm with you there.
 
jsrockit said:
Also, there is a difference between a sale between two individuals on the internet (where there is potential for fraud) and dealing with a company launching a new product during a time when its facilities are flooded.
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Welcome to the magical world of early adopters, where flooded factories pale against the emotional distress (some use the world "suffering") that comes with waiting a bit beyond one's preorder delivery deadline and having to deal with badly informed call centers in the process.
 
Latest word from Sony Canada's call center is that the delay is due to "parts availability". That might be so.

uhoh7 said:
Well...this..looks pretty decent to me 🙂

If fact it looks friggin fantastic. Compare to GXR---though to be fair, not the same lens. Thanks, Steve 🙁
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You really have a thing for Giraffes don't you? 🙂

The photo certain did show off what the 7 could do. I can't believe he didn't take an equivalent shot on the GXR.

What did you think of the indoor shot in that series?

I'm driving myself quite nuts trying to decide whether to buy a NEX-5N and EVF or a GXR, M mount and EVF. The former is cheaper. Or I can just skip buying anything, leave my lovely M lenses in their storage case, and shoot a crappy old 4/3's DSLR for a while and see what develops next year.

I'm not real keen on that last option; I'd rather pick up something I can live with now with the intent of selling it on the used market when/if the camera I really want (the 7 or something like it, with an integrated viewfinder, that performs well with rangefinder glass) shows up. Who knows, maybe Ricoh will come out with a full frame sensor module for the GXR or a new body and FF module.
 
I tell ya, I bought the 5N just as a stop gap until the 7 arrives, and I'm really liking it. The tilt EVF and touchscreen are actually quite handy. I say go for it and snag a 5N, EVF and some kind of leather half case to beef up the grip a little.
 
I've ended up ordering the 5N, black, and the EVF. You watch, now the 7 will show up too.

(... and the worst possible outcome, they'll both smear the edges with my wide angle ZM lenses!)

If I do keep the 5N, I'll have to get me some of that Hassy leather you spruced your EVF up with. And a half case, maybe. Does anyone make a 5N case yet?
 
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