Stop Bath vs Water

[clcolucci58]

Thanks everyone going to start using water for film and stop for paper.
Regards
clc

 

[angelopartemi]

I use a white vinegar/water 1:4 solution instead of stop bath. It is really expensive to get stop bath where I live. The vinegar solution works very well. 🙂

 

[ianstamatic]

water works great for me
i use tap water

 

[f16sunshine]

For film, Tap Water to rinse once or twice after pouring developer out and before putting in Fixer.
For prints, I use a Kodak indicator a stop bath.

 

[Chris101]

I use a white vinegar/water 1:4 solution instead of stop bath. It is really expensive to get stop bath where I live. The vinegar solution works very well. 🙂

White vinegar and stop bath are the same thing chemically, white vinegar being about 4% acetic acid, and diluted stop bath is about 1% acetic acid, so your dilution of 1:4 is perfect. Commercial stop bath often contains a pH indicator, like phenolphthalein which darkens when the acid is exhausted. You can add that yourself (it's about $20 a pound, which will last - literally- a lifetime) or do without.

As expressed here though, stop is not necessary for normal film development.

 

[JohnTF]

I use a white vinegar/water 1:4 solution instead of stop bath. It is really expensive to get stop bath where I live. The vinegar solution works very well. 🙂

Ask a local school. The supply room had had a standing order for acids, far more than they required, - had 15 gallons of glacial acetic -- they sometimes have to pay to have it removed, should last you quite a while. I accepted a few gallons.

The plain acetic has been quite reasonable if you find the right supply.

If you put Kodak's name on chemicals in the past, the price went up by a factor of up to ten. USP is certainly good enough.

Regards, John

 

[Rob-F]

I'm still using Kodak Stop Bath (old school, you know).

 

[tuanvinh2000]

I always use tap water instead of stopbath for development.
I only use distilled water for the final wash, otherwise I get water marks when the negatives is dry.

For darkroom printing, I do use stopbath.

How do you clean water mark once they are there?
Last few rolls i have started to see more water mark than usual. i thought it was the way i hang it so the water strides downward and cause a trail. I hear some ppl hang their negative diagonally to avoid this.

 

[oftheherd]

I'm still using Kodak Stop Bath (old school, you know).

Me too. It was the way I learned and I'm just more comfortable doing it that way.

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

My experience is that going straight from dev to fix on film will work as well. I started doing that in the 'seventies, when Britain had water shortage problems. That was when Ilford also advised that inversion washing was chemically identical to a 30 minute flow wash. They recommended 5 inversions, change the water, 10 inversions, change the water and finally 20 inversions. I have always added 40 inversions to that sequence and my negatives from that time are still clear and unmarked.

For prints, I started going straight from dev to fix when I began to use resin coated paper. I have a batch of thirty year old prints that I did for an exhibition. They are holding up well.

As to distilled water versus tap water, my experience is that it depends a lot on where you are working. Tap water in Britain varies from almost pure to extremely hard. Where we used to live, the water was soft enough to be used for both making up chemistry and final washing. Where we now live, I have to distill the tap water for it to be used at all.

 

[Rob-F]

Developer is alkaline, and Fixer is acid. If you add developer to fixer, you will change (raise) the pH of the fixer. And, I should think, precipitate out a salt--probably not a good thing.

Remember, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.

 

[HuubL]

Modern stop bath concentrates are based on citric acid, I believe. Advantage is that it's odorless.

 

[Freakscene]

Developer is alkaline, and Fixer is acid. If you add developer to fixer, you will change (raise) the pH of the fixer. And, I should think, precipitate out a salt--probably not a good thing.

No, the sodium or ammonium salts that are formed are highly soluble.

Going straight from developer to fixer will, however, make your fixer unusable much more quickly.

Modern stop bath concentrates are based on citric acid, I believe. Advantage is that it's odorless.

Most stop bath is acetic acid - citric acid stop bath is less common. It does smell better.

Marty

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

No, the sodium or ammonium salts that are formed are highly soluble.

Going straight from developer to fixer will, however, make your fixer unusable much more quickly.

That's true. However, when I do this for paper, I only use the chemistry for a single session. For film, it is always easy to spot fix exhaustion before it becomes critical. I use Ilford's Rapid Fixer and replace it as soon as a film takes more than 3 minutes to clear completely. That may not be economy minded but it works for me.

😉

 

[Freakscene]

That's true. However, when I do this for paper, I only use the chemistry for a single session. For film, it is always easy to spot fix exhaustion before it becomes critical. I use Ilford's Rapid Fixer and replace it as soon as a film takes more than 3 minutes to clear completely. That may not be economy minded but it works for me. 😉

It depends on the length of your sessions, but yes, it can work fine. Whatever you do you need to monitor your fixer and make sure it has adequate activity.

Marty

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

Whatever you do you need to monitor your fixer and make sure it has adequate activity.

Well, after forty five years or so of processing film and paper, I kind of guessed that…

😀

 

[Ansel]

I used just a water stop for many years but now used Kodak Stop as it more precisely stops development and my fixer lasts longer/its quicker easier to use.

 

[JoeV]

I've lately been doing lots of Harman Direct Positive prints in 4x5 format, developed in a Jobo test print tank, the capacity of which is <100ml in volume. I've taken to using a water rinse between developer and stop bath, and again between stop bath and fixer, and this helps to extend the life of both baths. I will typically have about 85ml of chemicals, poured up in individual styrofoam coffee cups marked with volume lines accordingly. This process becomes very economical on chemical use, as the developer is used as a one-shot process (for two 4x5 prints at once) but then gets saved for developing paper negatives, which work better with dilute, slightly exhausted developer.

~Joe

 

[JohnTF]

I believe most people who aspire to archival processing use a stronger fix for paper with two non hardening fixing baths, -- one sheet of 8x10 roughly equals one roll of film. I also have a water holding bath with a Kodak Siphon so the prints do not sit in the fix too long, then archival wash.

I see no reason not to use a stop bath for paper, as even for single use fans, if you are making more than a few prints in a printing session, you can use up your fix. I also check the baths for silver saturation using hypo check.

It is used in color printing as well, no point in carrying over alkaline developer in to the blix.

If you have fix sitting long enough to get a precipitate, toss it.

Never used the citric acid stops, but I believe food grade citric acid is sold as sour salt?

I also keep the acid bottles tightly stoppered, the darkroom at work has corroded most metal in the room from the migration of H+ ions from the acid stored there.

Regards, John

 

[Roger Hicks]

This is another of those arguments I call "religious". Both approaches work; adherents of one or the other are convinced that theirs is the One True Faith; and it's quite hard to convert people. There are also sects. Personally I'm a High-Dilution Acetist, with weak, one-shot dilute acetic acid.

Cheers,

R.