Suggestions for first "m" system...

[Creagerj]

I've been thinking for a long time now about really taking the plunge into serious rangefinder photography. So I was thinking of getting an M system. I'll be doing things backwards of course. I'll buy a good camera long before I buy a good lens. So I'll probably start with LTM lenses, but I still want the M body so that I can upgrade when I want without buying a new camera. Now this is going to be a while from now so please don't offer me deals. Anyway, I've been wondering what would be best. A bessa r3a/r2a, or a Lieca M4-P. I know that the Lieca packs a heavier price tag, so I was wondering if it is worth the extra saving? Also, what lenses are both good and affordable? I know about the FSU lenses, but I want to go beyond that. Or if you think that FSU lenses are actually better than some of the more expensive european lenses let me know. I've used a J8 on my Kiev but I don't have anything to compare to.

 

[RML]

The J-8 in LTM is a fine lens. I've used it for years now.
The M-Rokkor 40/2 is also a fine lens. It's in fact a Summicron 40/2 but costs less.
There are many other LTM lenses from Canon etc. No expereince with them but others here do.

What do you look for in a body? Did you see the recent discussion about Leica vs Zeiss Ikon?

 

[Creagerj]

Well, I like the Bessa r3a because of it's features, and I like the M4-P because I guess it's supposed to be pretty durable, but lacks some features I guess. Also it cost more. I want something that is not going to break and not going to have many costly problems because I won't be able to afford it after I get the camera. I'm not really looking at ziess, and I'm looking to go under 1,000. I guess I want durability, a good night time shooter, and something that is metered but can also be shot with out batteries for under 1K.

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

An R3A is very good value, and well-designed and well-constructed.

 

[pvdhaar]

If you're looking for a metered camera, then be aware that the M4-P doesn't have that feature.

 

[Creagerj]

no metering whatsoever in the M4-P?

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

Ah! We posted at about the same time.

R2A and R3A need batteries. The tiny LR44 type which seem to last forever. I buy mine ten at a time as they have a five year shelf life.

 

[vodid]

Have you considered a Bessa L body ($69 if you buy it with a lens) and your favorite focal length Voigtlander lens to go with it? Very affordable, and you'll have a workable camera with a nice lens...you can upgrade the camera body later. Just a thought.

 

[pvdhaar]

no metering whatsoever in the M4-P?

Nope, meters were introduced in the M5. The M4-P is a meterless camera (as is the M4-2 and the original M4).

 

[pvdhaar]

Oh, and if you want to be able to shoot without batteries, the R3a/R2a are out of the question as well. The shutters are electronically controlled; no batteries no click. Not even a default shutter speed.

The R3m/R2m which are now being introduced have mechanical shutters and built-in meters though, so will run without batteries if so required.

Of course, as per M-system, also the R2 and T are options that have mechanical shutters and through the lens metering.

 

[RML]

Repairs on an Leica M can also be quite costly. Even a regular CLA will set you back $150 if not more. And fact is that most second hand Leicas need a CLA, if only to make sure that everything works properly and that the shutter times are accurate.

 

[Creagerj]

Hmmm... I guess metering may not be that important.

 

[sf]

Without batteries?

If money is no object, it seems a new MP and a 35mm Summilux would be just about perfect.

If money IS an object, M3 + summaron.

 

[Goodyear]

I haven't used them all, of course, but it seems that any of the readily-available options in M-mount will be a good piece of kit: Bessa T, R2 or later, new ZI, old or new Leica M - although be aware that the Bessa T requires external finders for all lenses.

The experience of many (most? all?) here is that if you find yourself thinking on a Leica, then you will end up getting one eventually. If you already know RFs are for you (it's true that they aren't for everyone), might it be cheaper in the long run to hold off a bit longer and get tha M4-P? I found handheld metering to be very liberating when I got my M2, but I know that in some situations an in-camera meter is extremely useful.

As for affordable but good lenses, everyone here will have an opinion. Which is a good thing. Lens choice can be very subjective (I was tempted to write 'objective choice...' - sorry).

You can get some nice older Leitz glass for friendly money, but that's best if you're after the look of a particular lens.

Good examples of the FSU stuff are great. I heart my J8, I really do.

The current lineup of Cosina-made Voigtländer lenses are excellent value and good performers.

I have some from each option above.

I presume you're not asking abuot new Leica lenses. Expensive, but very good if you like the look. Again, it's subjective.

Enjoy the next step on your RF journey 🙂

 

[matt fury]

If you're looking for under $1k for a body, you can afford a M5 or M6, which both have meters. If you're considering a Bessa, you might want to also think about Leica CL or CLE and the Hexar RF. The Hexar RF has a ton of features, IMO better build quality than a Bessa, and should only run $600.

You have a lot of options. I was in a similar position a while back, and I just decided to get the one I could find the best deal on. Ended up with a M4, which I added a meter to.

 

[richard_l]

The M6 is essentially an M4-P with a meter. Sometimes you can find them for around $1K.

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

When I click on 'Forums' here I can see an M4-P for $699.

 

[rover]

M2, M4-P, M3 and M4-2 all can be found for under $1000, but have no meter.

R2a, R3a have an electronic shutter.

Used R2 will fit your needs, metered, mechanical shutter, and under $1000.

As for the Unmetered Leicas, they all can be found for only a couple hundred $ more than an R2a/R3a so if you can live without a meter it may not take too much longer of a wait to get one.

And why a mechanical shutter. The batteries for these cameras are very common, and um, are light and easy to carry.

Inexpensive lenses, that are good..... There are lots, don't worry about that. The Canon LTM lenses are relatively common and comparatively inexpensive, and there is nothing at all wrong with the current CV lenses.

 

[pvdhaar]

And why a mechanical shutter. The batteries for these cameras are very common, and um, are light and easy to carry.

Depends on the application. If you do night photography with very long exposures (minutes to hours), then batteries drain pretty fast.

For example, a battery that gives you 100 rolls of 36 exposures of 1 second each, would be drained in a single exposure of 1 hour..

Attachment: half a battery

 

[lubitel]

Joe, I thought buying a Bessa R and using the Russian lenses would cure my "leica gas". It didnt. As much as I enjoy using a Bessa and Jupiter lenses, I still have that neeeed for a leica 🙂

So, If you really want a leica, and you can spend the money on it, thats probably the way to go. I'd love to have an M2, but cant afford it right now. someday....