Summicron 50 f2 v4

[Chris101]

Hey! That's the lens of my avatar!

 

[Erik van Straten]

I recently got a 50mm Summicron v4 in chrome, no. 359XXXX, very heavy, it weights 285 grams. It has a tab to focus, no ring. To my surprise however I can unscrew the lens head from the helical mount, just like is possible with the old rigid Summicron and the Summiluxes 50mm f/1.4 v1 and v2. The question now is: why is this possible? This lens head does not fit the old close-up devices or other apparatus.

Has anybody an idea?

Erik.

 

[Richard G]

No idea, but mine, black Canadian, now has a new white dot for aperture selection on the lens head. I bought it second hand in perfect condition in 1986 and it has been in constant use. Only when I got digital Leicas did I notice that it was not as sharp as my C Sonnar.

Having developed a set up for testing focus shift on that lens, I tested the Summicron and at 1m it was back-focusing by 2cm. The local Leica agent fixed that. Why the solution involves the lens head being rotated about 5 degrees further clockwise is unclear to me optically. They seem to have removed a shim somehow. It was always perfect at infinity and I struggle to find a shot in my archive where I could identify the back-focusing.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Today I was at my repairman. He dismantled my recently aquired Summicron 50mm v4 in chrome. The lens head screws off just like on the Summicron Rigid 50mm and the earliest versions of the Summilux 50mm I and II. This is a great advantage when the lens needs service.

My lens is 24 years old, but looks like new. However, the lubricant was dried out, so my repairman removed it all and replaced it with the grease that Leica uses for the helical mount of their R-line of lenses. The result is amazing. All play is gone. The lens focuses now very smooth with just the right amount of resistance. The lens is now completely like new.

Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Leica M3, Summicron 50mm f/2 v4, 400-2TMY, Perceptol.

Erik.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Very nice lens, Erik. I didn't know they have this version in matching M3 white.

I still haven't tried my Beaver Tail on BW film. I'm feeding my film cameras with color stuff.
v4 on old Konica 50 C-41 film:

 

[peterm1]

Shot with the V4 Summicron on an M8

Adelaide market by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

Through a glass darkly 3 by Life in Shadows, on Flickr


Ladies who shop by Life in Shadows, on Flickr


Danny by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

A little piece of Asia in Adelaide by Life in Shadows, on Flickr

 

[jarski]

Is it possible that this lens performs better on film than on digital? I tested in on a Fuji xe1 and the results were not really better than my Skopar 35 or even Industar 50 😀

you are looking only the sweet spot, and crop out the borders where the difference shows best.

edit: op was asking 12-21-2016... could we have some forum feature to remind if you are replying some ancient thread

 

[Erik van Straten]

Very nice lens, Erik. I didn't know they have this version in matching M3 white.

Thank you, Ko.Fe. On this version the lenshead unscrews, just as on the Rigid. Also the weight is the same, 280 g. The v5 in chrome seems to be even heavier, 330 g.

The lenshead of the Rigid can be used on all kinds of close-up apparatus, even on an enlarger, but AFAIK this is not possible with this lenshead.

Contrast and sharpness are very good and there is no distortion.

Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Leica M3, Summicron-M 50mm f/2 v4, 400-2TMY, Perceptol.

Erik.

 

[happy]

This could be a problem.

While looking through the viewfinder focus to infinity on something far off that should be aligned. Press up on the lens barrel at the end of the lens, just past the aperture ring.

Does the RF align? Can you see the RF moving when you press up on the lens?

I had this on my V4 when I had it and I told it pronto. This is unrepairable. or repairable but very costly. I sent my lens to Kinderman to get it solid again and I was told that in order to disassemble the lens there are very tightly fit pieces that if removed might not go back together properly. Even after their attempt to repair it the wobble was still too much for me. I was told that if I wanted it repaired I'd have to send it off to Leica themselves.

Essentially the problem is that over the years the helical in the lens has worn down and the threads aren't as tight as they once were. When the lens sits on the camera the lens has a very slight wobble that offsets the top ridge of the lens that contacts the focussing cam.

With this you won't get reliable accurate focus at F2.8-F2 without pressing up on the lens, even still you can miss focus wide open. You won't be able to take advantage of the sharpness of the lens. Furthermore since the DOF in the lens drops off so abruptly anything that is out of focus will be noticeably soft.

This defect is a common one and one that most people don't talk about. I had it slightly on my Rigid Summicron when I had it as well. However since the lens isn't perfect wide open I never shot it faster than 2.8

Funny that I've come across this comment just now because I've been having this exact same issue with my 50 Summicron V4. When I disassembled the lens, I assumed it was the helical gears getting loose from wear. I was going to re-pack some thicker grease to help compensate.

However, what I found when I opened it up was that the helicoils were fine. What was actually going on was that a brass retaining ring in the lens mount portion of the lens had been worn down allowing for play between the focus ring and the lens mount.

I was able to source a ring that would fit from here:
https://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduct.cfm?partnumber=SM48RR

The dimensions and thread pitch are spot-on. The one catch is that it is made of anodized aluminum, not brass like the original ring. It's not a big deal and there shouldn't be issues with using the aluminum part but I'm going to call Leica and see if they can send me the genuine brass retaining ring anyway. May post a thread once I get it all sorted and put back together. I know other V4 owners have dealt with looseness.

P.S. I don't know if you tested your lens carefully but with my lens, focusing wasn't really affected by the looseness. Because the RF cam is rigidly linked to the optics, focus through a rangefinder should not be greatly affected.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Leica M5, Summicron-M 50mm f/2 v4, 400-2TMY, Perceptol.

Erik.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Mine on HP5+ in HC-110. 🙂

More here:
http://rangefinder.ru/glr/showphoto.php/photo/105129/cat/all/limit/all

 

[Erik van Straten]

Leica M3, Summicron-M 50mm f/2 v4, 400-2TMY, Perceptol.

Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Leica M2, Summicron-M 50mm f/2 v4, 400-2TMY, Perceptol.

Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Leica M3, Summicron-M 50mm f/2, 400-2TMY, Perceptol.

Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Leica M3, Summicron-M 50mm f/2 v4, 400-2TMY, Perceptol.

Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Leica M2, Summicron-M 50mm f/2 v4, 400-2TMY, Perceptol.

Erik.

 

[Daryl J.]

Erik,

Are you using any filters on your V4 Summicron?

Thanks,
Daryl J.

 

[Rob-F]

There are aluminium (black) and brass (chrome) versions of the v4. Maybe the aluminium ones are not solid enough. The chrome ones have a real solid feel to them.

Erik.

Both versions use both brass and aluminum. These two metals have low friction when moving against each other. Leica will use aluminum for the outer part of the helicoid for black anodized and black paint lenses. The aluminum is lighter than brass, so it saves weight when used as the outer part. But aluminum can't be chrome plated, and brass can be. So chrome lenses have to be brass on the outside and aluminum for the smaller inner part. The heavier metal on the outside makes the chrome lens feel more solid.