Taylor-Hobson Xenon 50mm f/1.5 LTM

[Mike Fish]

I'm curious about the Taylor-Hobson Xenon 50mm f/1.5.

What kind of character do they have? I have a Summitar and Elmar and wondering if I'd gain anything (other then speed).
How rare are they?
What's a decent price range.
Are there different versions?
Are there any known common issues to watch out for?

Thanks in advance,
Mike

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[xayraa33]

it would be pretty much like an original Summarit but with no lens coating, so it may be a flare monster, as flare is bad enough on most old Summarits.

 

[sevo]

It simply is a uncoated Summarit. Schneider and TTH held patents for different parts of its design (the 6/4 double Gauss and the 7/5 extension of the same to speed it up to f/1.5 respectively), so it had to bear their names until the patents expired.

 

[xayraa33]

The last time I saw a Xenon lens with the TTH patent numbers on its beauty ring was in 1978, when an older gentleman brought over a Leica IIIa mounting a TTH Xenon lens at a Leitz camera clinic.

 

[Vobluda]

Not exactly as mine Xenon is coated an is from 30s.

It simply is a uncoated Summarit. Schneider and TTH held patents for different parts of its design (the 6/4 double Gauss and the 7/5 extension of the same to speed it up to f/1.5 respectively), so it had to bear their names until the patents expired.

 

[xayraa33]

Not exactly as mine Xenon is coated an is from 30s.

It could have been coated at a later time.

I have a sweet preforming Summar that is like that.

 

[Mike Fish]

Xenon compared to the Summitar

Xenon compared to the Summitar

At 5.6 would you expect the Taylor-Hobson Xenon to be recognizably different than the Summitar - in center sharpness and contrast? (Assuming flare is not included in the equation)

 

[Vobluda]

Coating has nothing to do with difference among Xenon and Sumarit, first lens were coated originally in 30s (if not even earlier) as my Xenon for example.
Coating of first Summarits is same quality (had several LTM ones), or better say poor, as Xenon coating.

Xenon is 7 elements in 6 groups and as stated not original Leica patent.

Summarit is 7 elements in 5 groups, coming out of Xenon but this time Leica patent.

It could have been coated at a later time.

I have a sweet preforming Summar that is like that.

 

[xayraa33]

At 5.6 would you expect the Taylor-Hobson Xenon to be recognizably different than the Summitar - in center sharpness and contrast? (Assuming flare is not included in the equation)

I found from owning two original Summarits, that they can slightly vary from each other in the look they give in photos, even when each is shot at the same f stop. I don't think that its older brother, the Xenon would be much different in that respect.

 

[xayraa33]

Coating has nothing to do with difference among Xenon and Sumarit, first lens were coated originally in 30s (if not even earlier) as my Xenon for example.
Coating of first Summarits is same quality (had several LTM ones), or better say poor, as Xenon coating.

Xenon is 7 elements in 6 groups and as stated not original Leica patent.

Summarit is 7 elements in 5 groups, coming out of Xenon but this time Leica patent.

Yes, but high element count Gaussian lenses of that era can all benefit from coating, even the early soft single lens coating of the past made a good difference.

 

[raid]

It is in Leica Images Lenses .....

 

[Mike Fish]

Sorry if I started this in the incorrect forum - but it's really not clear...

Leica M Film Cameras
Leica Screw Mount/LTM Cameras
Leica M Lenses and Images

There doesn't seem to be a LTM lens forum. I assumed it was because every LTM lens is also an M lens when an adapter is attached.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Slightly more than 6100 Xenons 50 f/1.5s were made, presumably all by Schneider for Leitz, those that were exported to the US/UK had to be marked TTH because of running patents.
There were versions with 2 and 3 knurled rings on the focus ring.
I've read theories that they were all manufactured in 1936 and sold and numbered in batches up to 1948.

Brian Sweeney confirmed for me that the Summarit and the Xenon are indeed different formulas. But their performans is similar depending on the coatings.
Construction of the two is very similar too, with the main difference being the servicing opening on the Xenon being hidden under the knurled ring that screwed onto the focus ring.

My specimen is from 1937, some fomapan 100 shots from the Santa Fe event last year.

 

[johannielscom]

Like the Xenon Rick, but that pre-war Zeiss-Ikon Super Ikonta B gets my attention here 😉

 

[Mr_Flibble]

530/16. I don't have that one yet....Personally I'm not overly enthoused about the 8cm f/2.8 Tessar though, Johan. And the fact that you can only get 11 frames per roll. Maybe I just haven't used my 532/16 enough.


I think I'll be using the Xenon again this weekend, either on a Leica IIIc or an Epson R-D1.