Ted Striker
Well-known
I find those answers lacking rigor and logic. Nonsensical. There's no supporting evidence whatsoever to make those explanations compelling. None.
Skiff
Well-known
What you find or not is irrelevant. The market facts are as they are, not as you want them to be.
The market for inkjet products made by Tetenal has collapsed unexpectedly during a very short time frame. That was simply not foreseeable. If markets behave in a disruptive manner, then you can easily get in severe trouble as a company.
Ted Striker
Well-known
Nonsense. A well run company has an accounting department that gets DAILY updates on money coming in and going out. My tiny 100 person company has this and we know THAT WEEK when we have a lack of orders coming in. If there are problems with sales, our management team makes adjustments to counter act these. These adjustments are as severe as needed (and they sometimes are very severe, as we are in a very cyclical business).
No company the size of Tetenal collapses unless there are serious, systemic problems inside the company, independent of the market. A well run company does not collapse overnight the way Tetanal did. Where are the cash reserves? Where are the lines of credit?
For god's sake SEARS kept going for a decade after it was clear as day they were a zombie company, yet Tetenal goes bankrupt in a few months. Something ain't right.
HHPhoto
Well-known
It's clear what was wrong there in the past:
- not a strong focus
- too much activities in fields in which too much competitors are active
- too much activities in the low-margin digital areas
- bad luck because of very fast, drastic market changes.
That will be changed with New Tetenal:
- strong focus on the increasing market for photo chemistry
- photo chemistry is the field in which Tetenal is best and has competitive advantages
- they get rid of all the non-profitable areas.
Cheers, Jan
Pioneer
Veteran
That is all well and good Jan. But, if I were in the position of some of those companies who are very dependent on Tetanal's product I might want to consider looking at possible ways of reducing that unhealthy dependency before the next bankruptcy.
Just a thought. Perhaps this is a disaster narrowly averted. Or perhaps this really should be a wake up call for the industry. Depending on one supplier, no matter how large, may not be a great business decision. Complacency and arrogance can effect us all.
Just a thought. Perhaps this is a disaster narrowly averted. Or perhaps this really should be a wake up call for the industry. Depending on one supplier, no matter how large, may not be a great business decision. Complacency and arrogance can effect us all.
Ted Striker
Well-known
Where's the evidence to back up this statement?
Where are the other casualties from this drastic market change? I see no other companies in this market going insolvent.
Why did Tetenal not react to it?
Why did they not reorganize under bankruptcy? Why instead go insolvent?
If they truly had a viable business, a reorganization would be the most logical and cost effective way forward. That this did not happen shows me that there are deeper, more systemic problems within Tetenal that we are not being told of. A viable business could have gotten a line of credit to operate under while reorganizing. Tetenal, as we know it, ceased to exist instead, with the employees trying to resurrect it into another company.
HHPhoto
Well-known
Several companies already have had activities going on to become more independent before Tetenal got in trouble. For example Adox, who is building up own chemistry production for quite some time now.
Just recently they installed a new 300L vessel for photo chemistry production:
http://www.adox.de/Photo/aufbau-der-chemieproduktion/
But I think that for those who are curently very dependent on Tetenal's photo chemistry production like Ilford or Kodak Alaris the best is to support New Tetenal as best as possible. Tetenal has the know-how, high quality stuff, and can now completely focus on photo chemistry alone. Their core products.
And even if New Tetenal won't be succesful in the future, then there will be enough photo chemistry manufacturers to fill this gap (Fuji Hunt, CPAC, Champion, Adox, Bellini, Calbe, Spur, Moersch etc.).
Cheers, Jan
HHPhoto
Well-known
Tetenal is a German company. And there are several German photo forums and social media groups, in which experts who are directly involved in this process have explained all the background, including Tetenal stuff.
Cheers, Jan
Ted Striker
Well-known
I see. No evidence that can be shared. You'll understand that I discount this assumption then.
Ted Striker
Well-known
This is a very wise idea of course and you can be certain that no company wants to rely on another company that crashed and burned as fast as Tetenal did. They have proven themselves to be highly unreliable and so alternative sources are surely being sought in the interest of stability and longevity.
If the management of Tetenal could not manage their buisness before, there's no reason to believe they can do it again. Why were they unable to obtain credit to weather the poor market situation and dispose of unprofitable businesses? Corporations do this all the time. Eastman Kodak (post bankruptcy) is a prime example.
That's a real simple question that no one has an answer for.
HHPhoto
Well-known
The evidence has been shared here. The most important points have been translated and posted here. Short and focussed.
But why should any of the German speaking rff members translate and post all this numerous stuff in detail here for you? It would be a complete waste of time, because you would not believe it anyway.
You are generally not interested in facts which contradict your doom and gloom belief. We've seen that again and again and again here. You are permanently bashing the manufacturers, Kodak, Fujifilm, Ilford (over at apug) and now Tetenal. Due to your countless posts all of them are idiots and losers. And only you are the genius who knows what to do.
This thread is dead. A helpful discussion is not possible here anymore.
We will see how New Tetenal is going on. I bet they will have success.
Cheers, Jan
telenous
Well-known
Read the news, glad Tetenal is making a narrow escape. A week ago I bought a few bags of XTol, just to be on the safe side. Pioneer's post above makes a lot of sense - Kodak and Ilford must have (or devise, if they haven't) contingency plans in case of such emergencies. That said, I wish all the best to new Tetenal and workers there.
Fotohuis
Well-known
Amaloco Photochemicals the Netherlands made already in 2008 the decision to stop in the year they reached their break even point. In photographic chemicals you cannot make money anymore. Side effects killed Tetenal, bad luck in the inktjet business and a few mistakes in their business model. So I can hardly believe New Tetenal will have a big success. Maybe with only some specialists and get rid of a lot of employees they can maybe survive for a few years doing in Photochemicals: It is a dead business.
Skiff
Well-known
That is absolutely wrong! Two friends of mine are working in that business and they have often explained to me that photo chemistry has the best margins of all film based products. That is for example the reason why Maco, ars-imago, Bergger and CineStill have entered this market with re-labelled chemistry made by others and sold under their own brand.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Ladies & Gents - Tetanal's photo-chemical business isn't dead yet. While the original poster of this thread doesn't seem to have even a milliliter of hope for the photo-chemical unit making a new start.
https://emulsive.org/articles/news/...-and-production-from-insolvent-parent-company
I wish them well.
https://emulsive.org/articles/news/...-and-production-from-insolvent-parent-company
I wish them well.
Fotohuis
Well-known
You can only survive when selling specialized high quality products. However the amount of people who are in analogue photo and darkroom is very small. Further most film developers are cheap and you can do a long time with it. The margin is OK but you can not sell 100.000 bottles anymore ....
Pioneer
Veteran
Gee, what fun! 
I am glad to hear the news that is being reported and I wish this newly forming company luck.
I am glad to hear the news that is being reported and I wish this newly forming company luck.
CharlesDAMorgan
Veteran
Ditto. Having (i think) finally got happier with using their C41 kit I hope to be using them again and again.
Skiff
Well-known
But in an increasing and competitive film market it is of course not possible to benefit from the film revival with that strategy.
It is compared to 20 years ago. But the situation is improving, the number is increasing again. Film distributors like Fotoimpex, ars-imago, ag-photographic, maco etc. have hired new staff to satisfy the increasing demand. And in Belgium - which is smaller (less inhabitants) than the Netherlands two new film distributors are now serving the increasing demand.
Fotohuis
Well-known
1995-1996 was the top year for Amaloco Photochemicals. Since that era everything went down in business and fast after 2004 when Agfa and Ilford, later Forte, Efke, Jobo etc. went into bankruptcy. Now Tetenal: A great market? I do not think so. Finished in fact for multinationals, as said specialized high quality products in small batches.