The best 'Non Leica' M-mount camera is ..... ???

[hap]

Yes, thank you.

 

[hap]

Digital: I voted Pixii because you can buy one brand-new with a two-year manufacturer warranty and excellent technical support (the CEO answers emails!) plus because it's cool. The range/viewfinder isn't nearly as nice as the Epson R-D1's, though. (Yes, I own both.)

Film: We only get one vote (boo!) but if we could split between digital and film I'd also vote for the Cosina Voigtlander R3M (yes, I own one of those too) because it seems like the all-around best compromise. The R3 and R4 series are streets ahead of the preceding Bessas in terms of finish and solid feel, and there are plenty of people who can service their generic Copal and Cosina guts in case of trouble. The biggest plus to all the Cosina Bessas is the fabulous 1x range/viewfinder which makes it comfortable to use with both eyes open, just as if you weren't looking through a camera at all. Magical once you've tried it. (The R-D1, which is built on a Cosina chassis, has the same amazing finder.)

In the past I've owned a Minolta CL, but it didn't get my vote because the short-base rangefinder is too limiting. I've also owned a CLE, which I loved and would own again except for the lack of manual metering and the fact that I was always accidentally turning off the dratted power switch with an errant pinkie finger! I've never been able to try either an Ikon or a Hexar, but they both sound like they'd be awesome to use!

the on/off switch is a bit wonky. Also, there is a common issue with a number of CLE's is a hyper bouncing of LED's in the finder. Often it will settle down. Nielsen almost always gets rid of that with contact cleaning.

 

[splitimageview]

The oxidize contact issue which causes that is an easy DIY, I've fixed a few.

 

[Keith]

Added!

(Note: Use the report link to summon a mod.)

Thank you! 🙂

 

[Keith]

Eye placement is important and becomes second nature the more one uses the camera. Somewhat similar issue with Contax G series except the entire viewfinder dims/blacks out if the eye isn't properly centered; the exit pupil of the optical viewfinder is quite narrow.

Yes ... my Ikon drove me nuts for a while then suddenly the problem went away as muscle memory took over. 🙂

 

[pyeh]

I voted for the CLE because it's so cute. The shortcomings that Splitimageview lists are pretty serious though, especially the lack of easy manual metering. I wish it had 35 and 50 framelines too. I use it the most of my M-mounts because of its convenience, despite all this.

I have owned and used most of the film cameras on the list. The Bessa R's are nice but I found them less fluid to use than Leicas and the dinky rewind crank always felt flimsy. The Hexar was too noisy. The ZM's fixed rangefinder patch was too annoying.

Of the digitals I've only had the RD1. It was good, especially the images. I'm not a fan of the deliberate anachronisms though.

 

[mnutzer]

If there were still patent protection on the M bayonet, no free riders would exist.
I've tried almost all except the Pixii at photo fairs, stores or with photo enthusiasts and have always returned to the original by Leica, which has no substitute for continuity, service, value, etc.
The only fake camera I would like to hold in my hands once would be the Chinese Leica M4/M5 copy Hong Qi / Red Flag 20, but I don't have any contacts with top Chinese officials that are certainly necessary for this.

 

[boojum]

What is a fake camera, a photo of one, one carved out of a bar of soap?

 

[Keith]

What is a fake camera, a photo of one, one carved out of a bar of soap?

Anything that isn't a Leica of course! Please keep up. 🤣

 

[wlewisiii]

If I actually bought another film rangefinder, it would be a Canon P. Several of these would be tempting, to be sure, but for what I do, that would be the most usable camera for me all things considered. But really, I'd be better off saving my money for a FF Nikon DSLR and, eventually, a Leica M 246 😀

Still, it's fun reading these threads 👍

 

[boojum]

Anything that isn't a Leica of course! Please keep up. 🤣

Hey, I fell behind in the dogma. So sorry. LMAO I still haven't seen his definition. 🤔

 

[boojum]

I have a Pixii, it was an A1571 and is now an A2572. I have a few Leicas but I like this little guy a lot and for a lot of reasons. #1: good image. #2 uses the M39 and M42 lenses I now have. #3 it is innovative. Being a box with a lens and other than the RF nothing mechanical, upgrades are easy. It went back to France for the 64bit SoC upgrade for Euros 350 IIRC. Any upgrades can be done to the camera I have, no new camera to buy. #4 DNG in color or B&W. I do not shoot much B&W but this does it well and I do not need another camera for mono. #5 I am an admitted Francophile. And I like to see some new ideas in the marketplace of RF cameras. This little guy is growing slowly but is attracting more owners because they like how it works. It is not for everybody but those who have one like it. Or we would have sent it back in the 30 day return window.

There's not a bunch of us. I like to think of us as the discerning few. 😉

 

[boojum]

Here are a small folder of images to illustrate why I like this camera: Pixii A2572

 

[Rob-F]

All great cameras but I'm giving the nod to the Zeiss Ikon for its ease of loading and incredible viewfinder.

For anyone nominating the Voigtlander Bessa ... maybe state your individual choice in the comments.

That's my answer as well. For the finder, in my case.

 

[pvdhaar]

Having owned both a Hexar RF and a Bessa-T, my experience with non-Leica M-mount cameras is limited of course. But from a user point of view, the Hexar offers a tremendous lot of functionality. If I still had it, it would complement the all-manual M4 perfectly. Couple that with the Bessa-T requiring repairs after only a couple of months of light use (film advance and shutter blocked), and my vote goes to the Hexar.

 

[Keith]

Having owned both a Hexar RF and a Bessa-T, my experience with non-Leica M-mount cameras is limited of course. But from a user point of view, the Hexar offers a tremendous lot of functionality. If I still had it, it would complement the all-manual M4 perfectly. Couple that with the Bessa-T requiring repairs after only a couple of months of light use (film advance and shutter blocked), and my vote goes to the Hexar.

I bought one from someone another forum and it was really cheap because it had a missing frame line preview lever and a fair bit of missing paint. Mechanically it was perfect though! The Hexar is a hell of a camera ... I can see why it is running neck and neck with the Ikon.

 

[Guth]

I've also owned a CLE, which I loved and would own again except for the lack of manual metering and the fact that I was always accidentally turning off the dratted power switch with an errant pinkie finger!

I'm trying to picture how this might happen (no pun intended). I'm assuming that you are talking about the pinkie finger on your left hand.

the on/off switch is a bit wonky. Also, there is a common issue with a number of CLE's is a hyper bouncing of LED's in the finder. Often it will settle down. Nielsen almost always gets rid of that with contact cleaning.

When I received my CLE it was exhibiting the bouncing LED issue. I would note that I was able to clean the contacts located underneath the shutter speed dial myself as the process involved in disassembling the camera enough to access the contacts was not overly complicated. At that time I was not aware of anyone who would work on this cameras — it is very nice to know that Scott Nielsen located down in California is a competent repair person that was trained by Minolta. I've given some thought to contacting Scott about my XD11 even though I have not used the camera in more than 20 years. (I stopped using the XD11 because the metering system had developed problems, yet I've never had the heart to get rid of it.)

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Here are a small folder of images to illustrate why I like this camera: Pixii A2572

I would jump on it. But as one review is saying, "even 28mm lens is 42mm on it".
This is no go to person like me who have wide vision 🙂

 

[Godfrey]

I would jump on it. But as one review is saying, "even 28mm lens is 42mm on it".
This is no go to person like me who have wide vision 🙂

?? So use a shorter lens... This canard hasbeen beaten to death.

G

 

[Godfrey]

Of the film cameras in the list, the Zeiss Ikon is most appealing to me.

Of the digital cameras in the list, having owned and used all three, the only one of them I kept for more than a week was the Ricoh GXR with M-mount module, and would still enjoy using one despite it being well out of date sensor-wise now. I bought the digital Leica CL to replace it. Both the Epson R-D1 and Pixii were good cameras performance-wise but suffer from haptics and usability issues for me.

G