The brutal critique thread .....

It's really a non-problem, isn't it? And other people have proposed this already.....
Anyone wanting an "honest" "brutal" (pick a word) critique ..... open a thread for your image (or images) in this sub-forum and ask for peoples opinions.
Why is that hard? It seems immediately implementable (thats a word, right?) If you don't want to play, stay away.
Easy?
 
Everyone communicates in different ways. I'm not a Seattle area native but I often see people who are from this area struggling in communication with people from the east coast. The cultures are very different when it comes to how views or feelings are expressed. East coasters (Chicago, New Jersey, Boston, etc) tend to be extremely blunt to a point that is rare among west coast types. What the east coaster may see as normal communication may be taken as a bitingly harsh by the west coaster. Similarly, west coasters can be seen as non committal and backstabbing for not expressing their actual emotions by east coasters.

And that's just complexity/differences in communication within two regions of the U.S. Throw in other parts of the world and all sorts of unexpected ambiguity creeps it (someone from Europe refer to a bald person as a skinhead, someone from Japan post a photo containing blackface unaware of the history of it in other countries, etc).

Communication is hard and is filled with ambiguity. Growing thick skin is certainly part of it but we should also assume that people aren't necessarily following everything we say, may not know the intent behind comments, etc.
 
daveleo said:
It's really a non-problem, isn't it? And other people have proposed this already.....
Anyone wanting an "honest" "brutal" (pick a word) critique ..... open a thread for your image (or images) in this sub-forum and ask for peoples opinions.
Why is that hard? It seems immediately implementable (thats a word, right?) If you don't want to play, stay away.
Easy?
Click to expand...

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
 
So why is it a problem to have a single thread that everyone posts to? It's confusing, but not that much. I think that that was oversold by people who just don't like the idea of the thread, to critique it. What made it confusing really, were the person or persons critiquing the idea of the thread in the thread itself. Now they use the confusion they caused against the thread. Is that about right?
 
I retract my earlier comment exploring the renaming of the thread. I floated the idea in case it helped align the thread with Franks original goals. I wasn't attmpting to redefine the thread to my own views.
 
No worries, Brian. I'm not married to the wording of the thread title. The word robust could easily be used.
 
Ranchu said:
So why is it a problem to have a single thread that everyone posts to? It's confusing, but not that much. I think that that was oversold by people who just don't like the idea of the thread, to critique it. What made it confusing really, were the person or persons critiquing the idea of the thread in the thread itself. Now they use the confusion they caused against the thread. Is that about right?
Click to expand...

Go back and read through this thread more carefully. People stated very clearly and discussed what they do not like about that other thread.
If you want to continue contributing to Frank's thread, go ahead !. Who is stopping you?


PS ... I have exhausted every thought I have on this topic. Good night guys.
 
Nothing is stopping me, dave. I was just asking if that was about right, because that's what it looked like to me.

:)
 
daveleo said:
Go back and read through this thread more carefully. People stated very clearly and discussed what they do not like about that other thread.
If you want to continue contributing to Frank's thread, go ahead !. Who is stopping you?
Click to expand...

No one is being forced to enter that thread and read it...and if they do and don't like it they can press the back button and move on with life....***, isn't anybody on this earth responsible for their actions anymore??????????? :bang:
 
helenhill said:
Realistically I don't even care about being 'Critiqued'....
I shoot for what my Eye sees and if it Entertains, Questions or Seduces a Viewer than Great ....No big deal if it doesn't
I don't need a mentor or anyone to validate my Creative work as good or bad
;)
Click to expand...

I`m with you on this ...why should I change to suit someone...who I dont know and who doesn`t know me .

What are we doing here photography by committee.
 
Brian Legge said:
Everyone communicates in different ways. I'm not a Seattle area native but I often see people who are from this area struggling in communication with people from the east coast. The cultures are very different when it comes to how views or feelings are expressed. East coasters (Chicago, New Jersey, Boston, etc) tend to be extremely blunt to a point that is rare among west coast types. What the east coaster may see as normal communication may be taken as a bitingly harsh by the west coaster. Similarly, west coasters can be seen as non committal and backstabbing for not expressing their actual emotions by east coasters.

And that's just complexity/differences in communication within two regions of the U.S. Throw in other parts of the world and all sorts of unexpected ambiguity creeps it (someone from Europe refer to a bald person as a skinhead, someone from Japan post a photo containing blackface unaware of the history of it in other countries, etc).

Communication is hard and is filled with ambiguity. Growing thick skin is certainly part of it but we should also assume that people aren't necessarily following everything we say, may not know the intent behind comments, etc.
Click to expand...

Indeed so ...the bus stop analogy and the cab driver analogy would more that likely find you at your local A&E in the UK.
 
the 'brutally honest critique' thread, since it was created only 5 days ago, by now has been viewed over 10.000 times with almost 500 replies, I'd say a clear indication that the original intent by Frank is shared by many.

Yes, I also take photos for my own pleasure and don't 'need' anyone else to validate my work. Still I find the possibility to showcase my photos and to get honest feedback in this forum where many very accomplished photographers participate quite intriguing.

this and the 'original' thread have exposed various issues. Better we tried together to expose those and to find possible solutions, some rules that help to make this work:
What comes to my mind first is that 'brutal' may really not be a good choice of wording. Even though I agree that 'brutally honest' is a standing phrase it seems to be obvious that it easily can be misunderstood and invite not called for aggression.

I am not a long time active member, only have been more so lately. For this reason I do feel a bit shy to present my photos for critique, but after all:

daveleo said:
It's really a non-problem, isn't it? And other people have proposed this already.....
Anyone wanting an "honest" "brutal" (pick a word) critique ..... open a thread for your image (or images) in this sub-forum and ask for peoples opinions.
Why is that hard? It seems immediately implementable (thats a word, right?) If you don't want to play, stay away.
Easy?
Click to expand...

why not just give it a go? I did, see: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2459365#post2459365
 
Ned Bojic said:
Why is it that in real life, when I show prints to friends, they can tell me "Ned, this one is garbage" but in a forum, a remark such as "to the bin" or "I'd delete it" is seen as super rude?
Click to expand...

exactly.
That's probably because in real life we tend to bunch with people who have similar background, similar values, and "brutality" probably is understood the same way by me and my friends.
While in a forum, all kinds of folks are chiming in and one person's brutality is another one's pat on the back.
Additionally there's language barrier too, here's an example: if a Brit says "that's not too bad!" to a Dutch, the Dutch will be thinking "ok where did i f.. that up" :D
 
Giving up another thread!

Giving up another thread!

I agree with 'helenhill' when she writes:
quote: 'Realistically I don't even care about being 'Critiqued'....
I shoot for what my Eye sees and if it Entertains, Questions or Seduces a Viewer then Great ....No big deal if it doesn't
I don't need a mentor or anyone to validate my Creative work as good or bad'.

To paraphrase her last sentence - 'I don't need just anyone as a mentor, or just anyone to validate my Creative work as good or bad', and I think therein lies something of the crux of critique.

This thread seems to have degenerated as some seem to do on RFF - pity. I'm at a complete loss as to how some guys can write the rubbish that they do.
I'm giving up reading any more.
I'll go and get out a camera and try to take a decent photo! LOL

jesse
 
To all those folks who don't want or need critiques of their photos: simply don't participate. What's the problem? Why complain about something you don't have to do? I really don't get it. What am I missing here?

If there was another RFF initiative, like say a print exchange, would you start thread bashing the idea and explaining how you don't need to exchange prints with others?

Aren't you just being negative and "raining on other people's parade"?
 
FrankS said:
To all those folks who don't want or need critiques of their photos: simply don't participate. What's the problem? Why complain about something you don't have to do? I really don't get it. What am I missing here?

If there was another RFF initiative, like say a print exchange, would you start thread bashing the idea and explaining how you don't need to exchange prints with others?

Aren't you just being negative and "raining on other people's parade"?
Click to expand...


Some things never change Frank ... you of all people should know that! LOL :D

We'll work around it.
 
FrankS said:
To all those folks who don't want or need critiques of their photos: simply don't participate. What's the problem? Why complain about something you don't have to do? I really don't get it. What am I missing here?

If there was another RFF initiative, like say a print exchange, would you start thread bashing the idea and explaining how you don't need to exchange prints with others?

Aren't you just being negative and "raining on other people's parade"?
Click to expand...

nothing. U r missin nothing Frank.

This situation is a bit like, forbidding BDSM by law.
No matter that all the participants enjoy the torture, even BEG for it... it should not be done because it puts the whole society into bad light:D
 
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