raid
Dad Photographer
I am always in awe when I hold a 50mm lens by Leitz. Such lenses are usually very well made and they often have their own optical characteristics that set them apart from other 50mm lenses.
I like the fact that there is a historical sequencing to the 50mm lenses that I own right now. I have just a portion of the 50mm types that Leitz has produced over the years. In fact, I seem to have the "vintage basics" and none of the modern 50mm lenses.
1. Elmar 50/3.5 uncoated
2. Summar 50/2
3. Summitar 50/2
4. Summarit 50/1.5
5. Collapsible Summicron 50/2
6. Rigid Summicron 50/2 first version
I have read about the "magic" of the Aspheric Summicron [edited: I goofed here; it is the 35mm lens], and of course, I have had the chance to try out the amazing 50mm/1.0 Noctilux. Some people here claim that the 50mm/2 DR is the sharpest of all [vintage?] 50mm lenses by Leitz. Is this a myth?
Some people now claim that the new Elmar 50mm/2.8 "has it all." Does it really?
The contrast factor may be important here; do I have any high contrast lens ? Do I even want one?
What is truely missing from my set? I mean, is there a 50mm lens [just one] that I really need to add to the above to make my set more complete?
I am not in the buying mood or even mode, but I wonder.
There are many Leitz 50mm users here, so I hope to get a good feeling for what each type of 50mm lens is offering. I know that we have every other month or so a new thread on 50mm lenses here, but I felt that more information is benefitial to all of us.
Raid
I like the fact that there is a historical sequencing to the 50mm lenses that I own right now. I have just a portion of the 50mm types that Leitz has produced over the years. In fact, I seem to have the "vintage basics" and none of the modern 50mm lenses.
1. Elmar 50/3.5 uncoated
2. Summar 50/2
3. Summitar 50/2
4. Summarit 50/1.5
5. Collapsible Summicron 50/2
6. Rigid Summicron 50/2 first version
I have read about the "magic" of the Aspheric Summicron [edited: I goofed here; it is the 35mm lens], and of course, I have had the chance to try out the amazing 50mm/1.0 Noctilux. Some people here claim that the 50mm/2 DR is the sharpest of all [vintage?] 50mm lenses by Leitz. Is this a myth?
Some people now claim that the new Elmar 50mm/2.8 "has it all." Does it really?
The contrast factor may be important here; do I have any high contrast lens ? Do I even want one?
What is truely missing from my set? I mean, is there a 50mm lens [just one] that I really need to add to the above to make my set more complete?
I am not in the buying mood or even mode, but I wonder.
There are many Leitz 50mm users here, so I hope to get a good feeling for what each type of 50mm lens is offering. I know that we have every other month or so a new thread on 50mm lenses here, but I felt that more information is benefitial to all of us.
Raid
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ferider
Veteran
Hi Raid,
Except for 5) and 6) your set really consists of very different lenses.
Of course the hard core Leica user will give you detailed differences
and preferences for more modern 50s.
In terms of "quantum gap", besides the very different Noctilux,
the one lens that (I don't own but) I have played with, that I thought
was really unique and beautiful in terms of look was the pre-asph
50/1.4 Summilux.
Roland.
Except for 5) and 6) your set really consists of very different lenses.
Of course the hard core Leica user will give you detailed differences
and preferences for more modern 50s.
In terms of "quantum gap", besides the very different Noctilux,
the one lens that (I don't own but) I have played with, that I thought
was really unique and beautiful in terms of look was the pre-asph
50/1.4 Summilux.
Roland.
raid
Dad Photographer
Hello Roland,
Magus seems to swear by the asph. Summicron. How is the look of the images from the 50/1.4 Summilux beautiful? Is it close to a more contrasty and sharper Sonnar?
I don't have any modern lens and my "fast" lens is the 50/1.5 badly behaving Summarit. I have never used a 50/1.4 Summilux. Maybe one day we should have a Leitz exlusive lens testing of 50mm modern lenses only. Maybe in the far future ...
Raid
Magus seems to swear by the asph. Summicron. How is the look of the images from the 50/1.4 Summilux beautiful? Is it close to a more contrasty and sharper Sonnar?
I don't have any modern lens and my "fast" lens is the 50/1.5 badly behaving Summarit. I have never used a 50/1.4 Summilux. Maybe one day we should have a Leitz exlusive lens testing of 50mm modern lenses only. Maybe in the far future ...
Raid
markinlondon
Elmar user
Raid, there is no asph 50mm Summicron (but there is an asph 50 'lux which is very impressive). I only have two Leitz 50's an M mount f2.8 Elmar which would be all I need if I didn't have a tabbed Summicron which always manages to stagger me with its reading of fine details.
harmsr
M5 Nut
I have played with for a significant time or owned the following:
Current Noctilux
Current Cron
Current Lux ASPH
Pre-ASPH Lux
Summarit
Coll. 2.8 Elmar (LTM)
Coll Cron (LTM)
DR Cron
Which ones do I currently own?
Lux ASPH / LTM Coll. Cron
Why?
The Lux ASPH draws the way that I want. To me it gives great textures, is extremely sharp without being clinical, I like its' oof rendering and transitions, flare resistant, I love the built in hood, the character / fingerprint is pleasing to my eye.
The Coll. Cron (LTM) it was the best image quality LTM lens that I could get for my iiif. The 2.8 Elmar was close, but I like the extra stop and ease of use with the Cron (relative to non-rotating front element). Mine has a nice fresh CLA and is providing a nice mid-level of contrast, is reasonably sharp, transitions to oof smoothly, works great in harsh light on both film and digital.
The others were all bested by these two lenses in my opinion.
Each to his own opinion, but these two lenses suit me well.
Just my $.02.
Best,
Ray
Current Noctilux
Current Cron
Current Lux ASPH
Pre-ASPH Lux
Summarit
Coll. 2.8 Elmar (LTM)
Coll Cron (LTM)
DR Cron
Which ones do I currently own?
Lux ASPH / LTM Coll. Cron
Why?
The Lux ASPH draws the way that I want. To me it gives great textures, is extremely sharp without being clinical, I like its' oof rendering and transitions, flare resistant, I love the built in hood, the character / fingerprint is pleasing to my eye.
The Coll. Cron (LTM) it was the best image quality LTM lens that I could get for my iiif. The 2.8 Elmar was close, but I like the extra stop and ease of use with the Cron (relative to non-rotating front element). Mine has a nice fresh CLA and is providing a nice mid-level of contrast, is reasonably sharp, transitions to oof smoothly, works great in harsh light on both film and digital.
The others were all bested by these two lenses in my opinion.
Each to his own opinion, but these two lenses suit me well.
Just my $.02.
Best,
Ray
harmsr
M5 Nut
Magus swears by the 50 Lux ASPH & the 35 Cron ASPH.
Best,
Ray
Best,
Ray
raid
Dad Photographer
Raid, there is no asph 50mm Summicron (but there is an asph 50 'lux which is very impressive). I only have two Leitz 50's an M mount f2.8 Elmar which would be all I need if I didn't have a tabbed Summicron which always manages to stagger me with its reading of fine details.
__________________
Mark Bowerman
Hi Mark,
I must have misread what Magus said about his alltime favorite lens, but then again, he may have been talking about his 35mm lens and not the 50mm lens!So you feel the same way about the asph Lux as Roland.
Raid
__________________
Mark Bowerman
Hi Mark,
I must have misread what Magus said about his alltime favorite lens, but then again, he may have been talking about his 35mm lens and not the 50mm lens!So you feel the same way about the asph Lux as Roland.
Raid
raid
Dad Photographer
Hi Ray,
We must have submitted our comments simultaneously!
Yes, Magus swears by his 35mm asph Summicron.
So we have a vote for the Asph Noctilux. Is it the 50mm/1.0 or the 50mm/1.2 Noctilux?
I have your collapsible Summicron, and I agree with you regardings its usefulness. I just bought a Summar replacement for the one that got stolen from me, so I will first check it out, but afterwards I want spend some time using the collapsible Summicron.
Raid
I have played with for a significant time or owned the following:
Current Noctilux
Current Cron
Current Lux ASPH
Pre-ASPH Lux
Summarit
Coll. 2.8 Elmar (LTM)
Coll Cron (LTM)
DR Cron
Which ones do I currently own?
Lux ASPH / LTM Coll. Cron
Why?
The Lux ASPH draws the way that I want. To me it gives great textures, is extremely sharp without being clinical, I like its' oof rendering and transitions, flare resistant, I love the built in hood, the character / fingerprint is pleasing to my eye.
The Coll. Cron (LTM) it was the best image quality LTM lens that I could get for my iiif. The 2.8 Elmar was close, but I like the extra stop and ease of use with the Cron (relative to non-rotating front element). Mine has a nice fresh CLA and is providing a nice mid-level of contrast, is reasonably sharp, transitions to oof smoothly, works great in harsh light on both film and digital.
The others were all bested by these two lenses in my opinion.
Each to his own opinion, but these two lenses suit me well.
Just my $.02.
Best,
Ray
We must have submitted our comments simultaneously!
Yes, Magus swears by his 35mm asph Summicron.
So we have a vote for the Asph Noctilux. Is it the 50mm/1.0 or the 50mm/1.2 Noctilux?
I have your collapsible Summicron, and I agree with you regardings its usefulness. I just bought a Summar replacement for the one that got stolen from me, so I will first check it out, but afterwards I want spend some time using the collapsible Summicron.
Raid
I have played with for a significant time or owned the following:
Current Noctilux
Current Cron
Current Lux ASPH
Pre-ASPH Lux
Summarit
Coll. 2.8 Elmar (LTM)
Coll Cron (LTM)
DR Cron
Which ones do I currently own?
Lux ASPH / LTM Coll. Cron
Why?
The Lux ASPH draws the way that I want. To me it gives great textures, is extremely sharp without being clinical, I like its' oof rendering and transitions, flare resistant, I love the built in hood, the character / fingerprint is pleasing to my eye.
The Coll. Cron (LTM) it was the best image quality LTM lens that I could get for my iiif. The 2.8 Elmar was close, but I like the extra stop and ease of use with the Cron (relative to non-rotating front element). Mine has a nice fresh CLA and is providing a nice mid-level of contrast, is reasonably sharp, transitions to oof smoothly, works great in harsh light on both film and digital.
The others were all bested by these two lenses in my opinion.
Each to his own opinion, but these two lenses suit me well.
Just my $.02.
Best,
Ray
vrgard
Well-known
Hi Raid,
I believe, if you re-read Roland's post above, that he was referring to the pre-ASPH Lux rather than the ASPH Lux.
-Randy
I believe, if you re-read Roland's post above, that he was referring to the pre-ASPH Lux rather than the ASPH Lux.
-Randy
raid
Dad Photographer
Hi Randy,
Yes, he means the pre-asph. Thanks.
What is the main optical difference between the asph and the pre-asph, other than the obvious aspherics? Is bokeh nicer with one over the other?
Raid
Yes, he means the pre-asph. Thanks.
What is the main optical difference between the asph and the pre-asph, other than the obvious aspherics? Is bokeh nicer with one over the other?
Raid
Meleica
Well-known
Raid - my 50mm Summicron page gives a brief account and optical layout of each type of the Summicrons:
http://antiquecameras.net/50summicronmlenses.html
-Dan
http://antiquecameras.net/50summicronmlenses.html
-Dan
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raid
Dad Photographer
Meleica said:
Hello Dan: Thank you. I often visit that site and read about the lenses. It is a valuable resource of information.
I also want input from actual users of these lenses with their personal feelings.
Cheers,
Raid
Meleica
Well-known
Raid - my personal comments:
Coll. Summicron: a great combinaton of resolution and moderate contrast with nice bokeh....need to watch for flare, and need to make sure mount isnt worn causing play in the mount.
D/R Summi: Similiar to collap. High resolution, moderate contrast, some veiling flare can cause nice Leica "glow" with B&W...
Type 4 Summicron: high sharpness, high contrast...loved using it at F2 or 2.8...too harsh at F8 for me...
Coll. Summicron: a great combinaton of resolution and moderate contrast with nice bokeh....need to watch for flare, and need to make sure mount isnt worn causing play in the mount.
D/R Summi: Similiar to collap. High resolution, moderate contrast, some veiling flare can cause nice Leica "glow" with B&W...
Type 4 Summicron: high sharpness, high contrast...loved using it at F2 or 2.8...too harsh at F8 for me...
ferider
Veteran
Optically, I gather that the asph Summilux versions have more resolution
and contrast wide open when compared to the pre-asph versions.
Also, they are much, much more expensive, I would not spend around
US 2-3k for a single lens, since I would be afraid to use it (as a hobbyist).
In any case, the pre-asph 50 Summilux pictures are great for portraits.
Nice 3D quality in rendering, and in contrast to Sonnars, more uniform
across the frame. And the lens is sharp enough for some f1.4 or f2 landscapes.
Enough of a classic foot-print, too.
Check Gabriel's, Robert's, Alkis', Peter's or Ray's galleries, for instance.
Plus the lens can be had for around 700-900 US, depending on which version
and condition.
Roland.
and contrast wide open when compared to the pre-asph versions.
Also, they are much, much more expensive, I would not spend around
US 2-3k for a single lens, since I would be afraid to use it (as a hobbyist).
In any case, the pre-asph 50 Summilux pictures are great for portraits.
Nice 3D quality in rendering, and in contrast to Sonnars, more uniform
across the frame. And the lens is sharp enough for some f1.4 or f2 landscapes.
Enough of a classic foot-print, too.
Check Gabriel's, Robert's, Alkis', Peter's or Ray's galleries, for instance.
Plus the lens can be had for around 700-900 US, depending on which version
and condition.
Roland.
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harmsr
M5 Nut
Hi Raid,
Yes, we must have been typing at the same time.
I really do love the Coll. Cron on my iiif.
I truly believe that the Lux ASPH (not the Nocti) is one of the best lenses which Leica has ever produced if not the best.
The way it draws is just magical. You get sharp, nice contrast, good texture, beautiful transitions, great tonal capture, overall a signature that is really hard to beat. It does well in virtually all situations.
Best,
Ray
Yes, we must have been typing at the same time.
I really do love the Coll. Cron on my iiif.
I truly believe that the Lux ASPH (not the Nocti) is one of the best lenses which Leica has ever produced if not the best.
The way it draws is just magical. You get sharp, nice contrast, good texture, beautiful transitions, great tonal capture, overall a signature that is really hard to beat. It does well in virtually all situations.
Best,
Ray
WoolenMammoth
Well-known
Raid-
I have a summarit, a rigid v2 summicron and a new elmar-m 2.8. The new elmar looks NEW. Very sharp, very contrasty but just a very new look. I find my summicron really contrasty and much prefer the summarit for portraits. The new elmar-m is so sharp I find it to look 3-d, which is typically not the look Im aiming for with an old rangefinder... You would not be duplicating any look that you are currently capable of getting with your lens set if you added an elmar-m however for me, the look is really jarring in comparison to the old lenses. I also find it hard to use on people in profile wide open. Cool lens though. The gearing on the focus ring is super super super snappy fast, I wish I liked it for people more, the gear ratio pretty much rules for candid shooting, its a very very very fast focusing when you get in closer than 3 meters.
I have a summarit, a rigid v2 summicron and a new elmar-m 2.8. The new elmar looks NEW. Very sharp, very contrasty but just a very new look. I find my summicron really contrasty and much prefer the summarit for portraits. The new elmar-m is so sharp I find it to look 3-d, which is typically not the look Im aiming for with an old rangefinder... You would not be duplicating any look that you are currently capable of getting with your lens set if you added an elmar-m however for me, the look is really jarring in comparison to the old lenses. I also find it hard to use on people in profile wide open. Cool lens though. The gearing on the focus ring is super super super snappy fast, I wish I liked it for people more, the gear ratio pretty much rules for candid shooting, its a very very very fast focusing when you get in closer than 3 meters.
john neal
fallor ergo sum
Hi raid,
I'm chasing your collection too. Presently I have these in 50mm:
Elmar (coated & uncoated)
Summar
Summarit
Summicron (collapsible)
I'm more than impressed by the Elmars, and think they are probably better than my example of the Summar. The 'cron was recoated by Arax and performs admirably, the Summarit is a new arrival and yet to be seriously tested.
If I may, I would like to inject a non-Leica moment as my fave lens is definitely the Canon f1.4 (sorry, feels better now
)
I'm chasing your collection too. Presently I have these in 50mm:
Elmar (coated & uncoated)
Summar
Summarit
Summicron (collapsible)
I'm more than impressed by the Elmars, and think they are probably better than my example of the Summar. The 'cron was recoated by Arax and performs admirably, the Summarit is a new arrival and yet to be seriously tested.
If I may, I would like to inject a non-Leica moment as my fave lens is definitely the Canon f1.4 (sorry, feels better now
)
raid
Dad Photographer
I am trying to keep this thread "clean".
Actually, I also use non-Leitz 50mm lenses extensively.
Actually, I also use non-Leitz 50mm lenses extensively.
raid
Dad Photographer
john neal said:Hi raid,
I'm chasing your collection too. Presently I have these in 50mm:
Elmar (coated & uncoated)
Summar
Summarit
Summicron (collapsible)
I'm more than impressed by the Elmars, and think they are probably better than my example of the Summar. The 'cron was recoated by Arax and performs admirably, the Summarit is a new arrival and yet to be seriously tested.
If I may, I would like to inject a non-Leica moment as my fave lens is definitely the Canon f1.4 (sorry, feels better now
Hi John,
Would Arax recoat a Summarit along with a CLA?
Raid
FrankS
Registered User
50mm:
Elmar f3.5
Summar
Summitar
col. Summicron
Summarit
Elmar f2.8
first black Summicron
CVf2.5
Need more time and experience with all of these
Elmar f3.5
Summar
Summitar
col. Summicron
Summarit
Elmar f2.8
first black Summicron
CVf2.5
Need more time and experience with all of these