ferider
Veteran
I feel frustrated because, as a member and frequent poster I feel co-responsible of what RFF has become and have a hard time identifying with it. The general tone of interactions and topics is not made by just a few individuals. Like in real life, I'm sure we all can cope with a few "arseholes". However, we are suffering a drain of important contributors.
About 2-3 times per year we get together in the SF area, with a group of 10 guys or more, who used to be active RFF members. I mean active, like a couple of posts per day, at least. Most practically don't post anymore. All are active, some outstanding photographers, IMO.
Joe, you are doing a good job. But you are alone, and RFF needs more moderators and stricter enforcement of the rules, IMO.
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back alley
IMAGES
..RFF needs more moderators and stricter enforcement of the rules...
both are on the way...
both are on the way...
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
That's good but let's not become a police state!
More mods to enforce current regulations and rules is all that's needed IMO ... the rules themselves are fine as they are.
I also believe that off topics like politics and religion are ok provided people keep their cool, which they seldom seem to I admit. Maybe with more and broader moderation certain inflammatory individuals will tread a little more carefully!
ferider
Veteran
That's great news, Joe. Thanks !
Chris101
summicronia
I like this forum. I also agree that it is too much work for two mods to handle, although I have noticed that the two mods who post here (Back Alley, the OP of this thread, and the less ubiquitous Rover) are quite reasonable. I view tools such as MU and Tachy to be a bit passive aggressive. Under certain circumstances they can be useful, but I much prefer to have clearly defined (and easy to find) rules, then warn a member once if they break them, and remove their membership after a second infraction. It's also less work on the mods that way.
However, a forum always looks more negative to the mods than it does to the regular members. I know this because I have been the administrator on the similarly sized Nikon Cafe forum for the last five years. I recently retired from that position so that I could concentrate on my photography, my two tweens and my day job.
Being a moderator of an active forum is a hard job, and it is usually woefully underpaid! We members should keep that in mind when we interact here.
However, a forum always looks more negative to the mods than it does to the regular members. I know this because I have been the administrator on the similarly sized Nikon Cafe forum for the last five years. I recently retired from that position so that I could concentrate on my photography, my two tweens and my day job.
Being a moderator of an active forum is a hard job, and it is usually woefully underpaid! We members should keep that in mind when we interact here.
Creagerj
Incidental Artist
Offering critique isn't for everyone. I think it is fine to say that you don't like a photo, as long as you say why without being impolite. Same goes for liking something, it is good for an artist to know when something they are doing is working. As far as leading someone away from their own vision and toward your own, it's only critique, the poster can take it or leave it, they wouldn't be asking if they weren't interested in the thoughts and opinions of others.
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
The big problem with critiques is that the people who need them most are often the ones who are least willing to listen. I was doing critiques on the Leica stand at Arles a few years ago and someone showed up with a load of non-colour-corrected photocopy-quality images, six or eight to a sheet of A4, in no particular order. I am not exaggerating. She sincerely believed that this was all she would need to get a book contract. No proposal; nothing.
When I said that the pictures needed to be in order, she said, "The publisher can sort that out." She said the same when I tried to suggest that the publisher would also need to believe that the pictures were of adequate technical quality to reproduce: "They can correct that."
The pictures were completely unmemorable in any case, but many (?most) photographers have difficulty in separating their investment in a picture (it was hard to take, it was their kids, it took a lot of post processing) from what anyone else is likely to see in it. Suggesting that they try to look at the picture as if they knew nothing about it will result in a blank stare.
This is why I don't do critiques over the internet, especially on open galleries that invite comments from all comers. It's too time consuming; there's too great a risk of being misunderstood; and there's always someone ready to attack you personally or as a photographer: "If you're so great, why aren't you...?"
There's a piece on my site about the different things people look for in critiques: http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps critique.html
As I say in it:Critiques, appraisals, assessments, portfolio viewings, call them what you will: at their best they are invaluable, and at their worst, they are an embarrassing waste of time.
Responsibility for success and failure is equally shared between the critic/appraiser and the photographer. It's true that some critics are inherently better than others, but it's also true that some photographers make the critic's job a lot easier.
Cheers,
R.
When I said that the pictures needed to be in order, she said, "The publisher can sort that out." She said the same when I tried to suggest that the publisher would also need to believe that the pictures were of adequate technical quality to reproduce: "They can correct that."
The pictures were completely unmemorable in any case, but many (?most) photographers have difficulty in separating their investment in a picture (it was hard to take, it was their kids, it took a lot of post processing) from what anyone else is likely to see in it. Suggesting that they try to look at the picture as if they knew nothing about it will result in a blank stare.
This is why I don't do critiques over the internet, especially on open galleries that invite comments from all comers. It's too time consuming; there's too great a risk of being misunderstood; and there's always someone ready to attack you personally or as a photographer: "If you're so great, why aren't you...?"
There's a piece on my site about the different things people look for in critiques: http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps critique.html
As I say in it:Critiques, appraisals, assessments, portfolio viewings, call them what you will: at their best they are invaluable, and at their worst, they are an embarrassing waste of time.
Responsibility for success and failure is equally shared between the critic/appraiser and the photographer. It's true that some critics are inherently better than others, but it's also true that some photographers make the critic's job a lot easier.
Cheers,
R.
If I want a serious critique of my pictures, I always ask my Mom.
Sparrow
Veteran
I’d just like to apologise for any offence caused anyone by my spat with Nick the other day. I was aware of some of his previous contributions here, and I had taken offence with his of treatment Helen Hill a little while ago. I really should know better but sadly, it isn’t in my nature to allow such dogma to go unchallenged.
I am a little concerned now by the talk of more and heaver moderation, while on the one hand I agree if joe says he needs more help he should get it, on the other I really would hate to see a more draconian regime installed here simply because I couldn’t bite my tongue
I am a little concerned now by the talk of more and heaver moderation, while on the one hand I agree if joe says he needs more help he should get it, on the other I really would hate to see a more draconian regime installed here simply because I couldn’t bite my tongue
Roger Hicks
Veteran
gdi
Veteran
It is good that you feel responsible for your exchange with nick and are concerned about others' feelings, Stewart. It shows a healthy attitude of respect and concern for others; I am not sure we will see such contrition from the other party. Personally, I see nothing to apologize for in facing down bullying behavior, especially with blatant or repeat offenders.
Hopefully, the changes in moderation can reduce the need for such action in such cases and I welcome them. For those concerned about heavy handed moderation, I would ask you to have enough faith in Joe and other moderators to keep things on track and enforce the simple and sensible rules already in place. In the future, hopefully, a click of the report post button can alert the mods and corrective action will be taken, reducing the need for member-member confrontation.
A thank you to Joe and Stephen...
Stewart, thank you for your statement.
Nobody, especially the moderators and admin at RFF have any desire to act in any way to limit the growth and openness of the discussions here at RFF. On a daily basis though we see more and more posts (note I am saying individual posts not discussions) which are made by more and more members which are simply rude and abusive with no intent other than to insult or attack other members. We have tried hard to allow OT discussions with the simple request that the membership do so showing the utmost respect and courtesy for each other. You don't have to agree with each other, but you do have to respect each other's opinions. In the end we are all offering opinions and we are all just as wrong as the next guy. There have been many examples over the years where this has taken place, and I think we are a better community for it. But I gotta tell ya, it doesn't happen almost at all now a days. Some times it feels like this place is a big high school cafeteria with cliques of bullies squaring off to prove who can be more intimidating. Roger mentioned in another thread I think that he does not believe anyone comes to RFF to post just to be rude and cause arguments. He is wrong. There are some folks who do just that, and this cannot be tolerated. And most concerning is the fact that these posts are being made in threads which are on topic as well as the others.
RFF is here for every single member, not just the strong minded and thick skinned. Newbies and us old dogs, grumpy film forever curmudgeons and our own little film is dead crowd too.
Any moderation (if appropriate) will reflect the unacceptable and aggressiveness of the members' posts. We ask that you (the membership) just keep in mind that this IS a discussion forum, and the discussion is for everyone to share, just not you and those who agree with you. If you are looking for someplace to take your gloves off and argue, you found the wrong place. Please carry on with your open and frank discussions, but do so being mindful that you should treat your peers with respect.
Again Stewart, thank you.
Nobody, especially the moderators and admin at RFF have any desire to act in any way to limit the growth and openness of the discussions here at RFF. On a daily basis though we see more and more posts (note I am saying individual posts not discussions) which are made by more and more members which are simply rude and abusive with no intent other than to insult or attack other members. We have tried hard to allow OT discussions with the simple request that the membership do so showing the utmost respect and courtesy for each other. You don't have to agree with each other, but you do have to respect each other's opinions. In the end we are all offering opinions and we are all just as wrong as the next guy. There have been many examples over the years where this has taken place, and I think we are a better community for it. But I gotta tell ya, it doesn't happen almost at all now a days. Some times it feels like this place is a big high school cafeteria with cliques of bullies squaring off to prove who can be more intimidating. Roger mentioned in another thread I think that he does not believe anyone comes to RFF to post just to be rude and cause arguments. He is wrong. There are some folks who do just that, and this cannot be tolerated. And most concerning is the fact that these posts are being made in threads which are on topic as well as the others.
RFF is here for every single member, not just the strong minded and thick skinned. Newbies and us old dogs, grumpy film forever curmudgeons and our own little film is dead crowd too.
Any moderation (if appropriate) will reflect the unacceptable and aggressiveness of the members' posts. We ask that you (the membership) just keep in mind that this IS a discussion forum, and the discussion is for everyone to share, just not you and those who agree with you. If you are looking for someplace to take your gloves off and argue, you found the wrong place. Please carry on with your open and frank discussions, but do so being mindful that you should treat your peers with respect.
Again Stewart, thank you.
Sparrow
Veteran
You’re welcomed, but I shouldn’t have taken the bait really, now I’m just concerned that in trying to contain such things it is going to make it more likely for them to explode with more force later, don’t you think there needs to be somewhere to release the steam more steadily?
and anyway I suppose I find some of the best ideas are illuminated by the flying sparks of heated debate anyway .. to mix metaphors horribly ….
and anyway I suppose I find some of the best ideas are illuminated by the flying sparks of heated debate anyway .. to mix metaphors horribly ….
dfoo
Well-known
For steam reduction I recommend a heavy bag, long walks or similar 
gdi
Veteran
For steam reduction I recommend a heavy bag, long walks or similar
I agree! Climbing up a mountain with a monorail-filled Redwing to shoot a waterfall will do the trick. (Unfortunately, developing the shots only to see you somehow bumped the tripod and screwed the composition can initiate the re-steaming process!)
Journeyman
Registered Film User
Does this mean that film is dead comments will continue to be tolerated?
dfoo
Well-known
Film is dead? Dang, what am I going to do with all of the film in my freezer then??!
Sparrow
Veteran
For steam reduction I recommend a heavy bag, long walks or similar
Yep, but how does one tell the other chap to go for a hike without causing offence?