NazgulKing
Established
Roger Hicks
Veteran
"Quoting" this? Where? No, they license production elsewhere. This is NOT the same as "shifting" production.
Cheers,
R.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Kodak invested heavily into digital, more and for longer than the (comparatively small) Japanese SLR makers Canon and Nikon did. Their real problem was that they never were a camera company - to them, cameras were just a platform for marketing film. They apparently intended to transfer that approach to digital sensors, and leave camera production to others. But at that they stumbled over the different workings of the electronics component market. When you sell to a billion consumers and small businesses, you define the product and the price - but when you have four or five huge corporations buy 90% of your chip production, it is these that dictate what you have to make, and at what price.
NazgulKing
Established
It probably didn't help that Kodak had many competitors in the digital sensor market.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
That's worked out so well for Sony, after all.
Just kidding (sort of), but Apple controls something that Samsung does not: the software that runs its devices.
Rangefinderfreak
Well-known
When I die, I hope my three sons will bury at least one Leica M with me, so it does not come in the hands of somebody that just see the "money value" in it...
majid
Fazal Majid
They are made by Truesense imaging, which used to be Kodak's sensor division and was spun-off to Platinum Equity as part of Kodak's death spiral selling off what few valuable assets it has left.
I believe they have their own fab in Rochester, NY, but it was originally set up in 1979 which is an eternity in the semiconductor world. I don't think they are the bottleneck, though, Leica's reduced capacity to make M bodies at the same time it is shifting its production to its new Wetzlar factory is probably the culprit, and you can understand if Leica is prioritizing M240 production over the M-E.
I doubt it. ST Microelectronics is a very solid firm with world-class technology (their process used for the M240 is significantly more advanced than Sony's). Leica is moving its production from Solms to Wetzlar, and that's got to be disruptive for a relatively small company like them. Another issue is that they had to shed much of their staff when they nearly went bankrupt circa 2004 or so, and rebuilding human capital takes time.
Kudos to Dr. Kaufmann. It took guts to bet his personal fortune on a company that was at the edge of bankruptcy in 2004, and turn it around within a decade into one of the very few profitable camera makers (only Canon and Nikon manage that feat today).
As for the sensors, they were designed in Belgium but are made in France by a Franco-Italian company. Also, a substantial part of Leica production is done in Portugal, even if they don't like to trumpet it. The electronics modules are made by Jenoptik (the former East European half of Zeiss). Probably the only non-European components are the battery, LCD and the MAESTRO processor, which is a rebranded Fujitsu Milbeaut imaging SOC (albeit one based on the British ARM architecture).
The economic and managerial consensus is actually against vertical integration and for focusing on core competencies and outsourcing everything else, and that has been the case for at least 30 years now.
The only vertically-integrated camera makers are Canon, Sony and Samsung. Canon is lagging because its sensor technology is uncompetitive with Sony, Toshiba or Aptina due to under-investment in its sensor fabs. Sony is lagging in cameras for the opposite reason - good sensors, but poorly received bodies (whether this is justified or not is irrelevant), limited lens range, and lagging marketing. As for Samsung, apart from its home market in Korea, its camera business is an abject failure, which is why it was recently folded into the successful phone division.
I agree. Without the M, Leica is not unique.
Wulfthari
Well-known
The last time they tried to discontinue the M system they n early got bankrupted, if I remember correctly.
Now it seems they want to try again...I might be mistaken but I don't why a customer should spend thousands of dollars, euros or pounds for a rebranded Leica camera when he can get excellent Sony, Fuji or any other brands in the shop for few hundreds.
______
Well-known
The only reason to buy a Leica is the RF. Lots of other cameras accept Leica glass with an adapter.
jippiejee
Well-known
But you never bought a nice 35mm wide-angle to then see it 'adapted' into becoming a 70mm portrait lens on m43 for example. Apart from RF a major reason for many is the full-frame sensors of the Leica M family providing the original fov of your m-lenses. Until very recently there was not a single alternative to Leica's M9/ME/M on the market.
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
Exactly! Every day brings me a little closer to an A7, but I'm just not excited about the camera itself. I truly wish an affordable alternative to M9/ME/M would show up. Affordable is always a debatable term: for me, that's under $2000 or so. Of course I can stretch up a little, but it should be for a good reason. I have plenty invested in Leica (Leica mount) glass, that's where the big bucks got spent (and my now worthless Nikon AIS collection).
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
As sensors advance the matching of lens and sensor to get the best out of the combination is becoming paramount. The poor, relatively, performance of Leica glass on the A7r against the native glass designed for that sensor is an example. The open platform concept is going to come under increasing pressure, unless you are happy to have a performance compromise of course. Recent Lens Rentals Blogs have demonstrated the under performance, at extreme peeping, of the adaptors required as well.
This leaves Leica optimising for the lenses they have out there, a lot, and new glass of course. That is a niche they may have to draw back to if the high end consumer market stops delivering.
That "old" market doesn't want EVF or video (Nikon see that with the Df, not selling very well we are told, but probably because the market demographic doesn't want another 50mm lens and they are bundle only, marketing error there I think) Leica wants to draw in a new ownership before the old one dies, literally , but will that work?
BTW Leica dealers in the UK are offering discount on new M240 cameras, that early demand and short supply seems to have been satisfied rather rapidly!!
This leaves Leica optimising for the lenses they have out there, a lot, and new glass of course. That is a niche they may have to draw back to if the high end consumer market stops delivering.
That "old" market doesn't want EVF or video (Nikon see that with the Df, not selling very well we are told, but probably because the market demographic doesn't want another 50mm lens and they are bundle only, marketing error there I think) Leica wants to draw in a new ownership before the old one dies, literally , but will that work?
BTW Leica dealers in the UK are offering discount on new M240 cameras, that early demand and short supply seems to have been satisfied rather rapidly!!
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
I hear you regarding matching lenses to sensor. Perhaps the one reason why I don't already have the A7. I'd rather not use Cornerfix, and who knows how else I'm suffering with the "unmatched" sensor?
I'm not so sure Leica-types (us owner/users) are averse to an EVF, provided it's up to standards. The M-E is nearly unobtainable right now, presumably because of high demand. I'm pretty sure would use one (although haven't held one to really know).
The Df is an interesting story, isn't it? I felt the need to "abandon" my Nikon SLR system (and I'm rather invested in both bodies and glass) because there wasn't a Df available as the digitals came on. Now that its here, it almost feels too late. At least, I'm not feeling the pull to get one and of all people, I aught to. You never know.
Most of all, I continue to hope for a Leica-oriented FF digital at price I can afford. Or perhaps the Leica offerings will drop into the price range that represents my market and I'll nab one then. I wonder what that UK discount is...
I'm not so sure Leica-types (us owner/users) are averse to an EVF, provided it's up to standards. The M-E is nearly unobtainable right now, presumably because of high demand. I'm pretty sure would use one (although haven't held one to really know).
The Df is an interesting story, isn't it? I felt the need to "abandon" my Nikon SLR system (and I'm rather invested in both bodies and glass) because there wasn't a Df available as the digitals came on. Now that its here, it almost feels too late. At least, I'm not feeling the pull to get one and of all people, I aught to. You never know.
Most of all, I continue to hope for a Leica-oriented FF digital at price I can afford. Or perhaps the Leica offerings will drop into the price range that represents my market and I'll nab one then. I wonder what that UK discount is...
JPSuisse
Well-known
John, you are right on there! Jukka's pictures are great! They give some encouragement to pursue my own style more... I need that right now. Thanks Jukka!
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
Not a lot but anything on a new Leica is exceptional really.
£350 off straight at http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/ (List £5100)
£400 off a new lens if body bought :
http://www.wilkinson.co.uk/cameras/digital-rangefinders/leica.html
Rangefinderfreak
Well-known
Thanks, buddies... Nice to hear ! I am 70 now and look forward to get some new inspiration from you young guys.. In the meantime I just have to search my files and find new Images I like to print again...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40146285@N08/11493701636/
Fraser
Well-known
Just had a look very nice.
Talking of money off Leica Ms I noticed the other day that here in the UK anyway if you buy an Xpro1 with an 18mm you can claim a free lens! As much as I like my m9 if I was buying again that would be a hard deal to ignore, maybe if you already have Leica lenses then its an easy decision to stay with Leica.
Rangefinderfreak
Well-known
I got my first leica, a Black M2 from my father, a leica shooter since 1928. That was 1968.
That I gave to my first wife when we divorced. I got a MP (original # 302...)
That I sold when the price on the collector market started to be astronmical.
I got a M4-2 and M4-P with rapidwinders. In 2006 I bought a used M3 (chrome) that was unused maybe 20 years, It needed only usage, now it has M4 brand new finder ( clear , with 35mm framelines) I got in 2010 a M8. I gave recently the M4-2 to my 23 year old son. So now I have just 3 leicas and some lenses with 21-35-50-135 mm lenses + visoflex that I modified for hasselblad bayonet (120 macro and 180mm V series lenses)
I am happy with my system, then I have some hasselblads, X pan and a couple 6x6 bodies with 70mm cassettes. I shoot Hasselblads mainly in studio on a tripod, leicas ( and X pan) i carry frequently. I store only the good frames, the bad ones I throw away mercilessly. I might shoot four films and scan/ print only 2-3 frames, all other to "round archive"- Waste bin...
