Godfrey
somewhat colored
It seems that most people here are equating "mirrorless" with "compact".
Leica is producing what is essentially a next-generation pro SLR replacement, not a compact systems camera, and seems to be going for broke to make the best performing optics possible. Just like with the R system, such lenses tend to be complex designs with meaty mounts in order to be strong enough to keep everything aligned properly while also standing up a good deal of abuse.
My 52 year old Summicron-R 50mm f/2 lens isn't huge, but is as big as a Nikkor 50/1.4 and weighs 20% more. After all this time, it's still in perfect alignment, works smooth as can be, and produces results as if I took it out of the box yesterday..
G
maddoc
... likes film again.
I think Sony got it right, being a trendsetter for the design of mirror-less system cameras. 
Given the price of the new Leica (system) I am wondering which market they are targeting.
Given the price of the new Leica (system) I am wondering which market they are targeting.sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
Well said Mr G
Leica has indeed has just redefined what a pro DSLR should be in 2015.
Like it or not gents this thing will be a hit.
I can see both Canon and Nikon rethinking their Pro camera designs. Neither of which have done anything exciting in decades. (flame suit on
)You have to give it to leica for a gutsy design and bold styling.
And I don't get the comparison to the Sony product. Clearly two different cameras aimed at different markets/buyers.
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
I think Sony got it right, being a trendsetter for the design of mirror-less system cameras.
... The Pro market which hasn't had anything innovative for a very long time.
Children will be sold to buy this camera... lol
Samouraï
Well-known
When you put it that way, I'm genuinely amazed that Leica didn't do this.
Corran
Well-known
Are you sure about that? It needs an extra bit in there somewhere for that to be the case.
I doubt this'll come anywhere near penetrating the pro DSLR market, but we'll see.
As for exciting, when the D800 was announced with 36mp, that was pretty exciting. They (and/or Sony) leapfrogged the competition and did what was seemingly "impossible" - smashed the megapixel ceiling AND led the charge in expanding the DR and ISO capabilities of digital cameras. They didn't change the basic workings of the camera, because it's just about perfect...IMO.
YYV_146
Well-known
If you're comfortable with that size and price point, why not get a 645Z for a few hundred cheaper and enjoy the utmost image quality out of a digital camera as of October 2015?
I've shot with a 645D pretty extensively. The balance is superb with all but the largest Pentax glass. The camera is heavy but the massive grip and layout makes handling slightly less painful. There are world-class, $4,000 lenses for the system if you want those, and $400 spherical ones which are still tack sharp at F7.1-11, some of which will even do AF.
I'm usually a big fan of EVFs, but for anything this camera can do - the 645Z will likely do it better and at maybe 20% cheaper. Yes, it does 11 fps, but I can hardly imagine anyone shooting sports with contrast AF - it's just not reliable enough.
The 645z 45-85 combo is less than 300 grams, or 15% heavier than the SL and the "kit" zoom. The A7rII and the FE 24-70 is barely heavier than the 24-90 alone. The 24-90 is faster, but these days you can get a lot much punch for both less weight and money.
Edit: The S is a better comparison, but far more expensive ...I genuinely want an S. But I can't see myself paying $25,000 for one.
YYV_146
Well-known
I just sold my 15mm Distagon and woke up today thinking that if the ILC Q becomes reality, I would pre-order one right away. If not, the funds can go to an RX1II instead.
Looks like Sony will be selling one more RX1II...
fireblade
Vincenzo.
Maybe, but i doubt it.
The Pro boys with tens of thousands of dollars of cameras and lenses hanging around their necks at major events are not going to throw away their Canon/Nikon systems nor will their employers, just because Leica has reinvented the wheel.
rbelyell
Well-known
aint that the truth. yeah, they 'reinvented' large and unweildy equipment, 'reinvented' lack of on camera and on lens controls, and i guess 'reinvented' focus peaking as the sole mf aid. actually the only thing one can count on leica to 'reinvent' is pricepoint. in keeping with the Halloween season, i repeat the words of the great charlie brown: 'i got a rock!'. ARGHH! i really wanted this to BE something. it was like waiting for the latest stones album when i was a kid, waiting on line for hours, rushing home and the putting 'satanic majesties' on the turntable! double ARGHH!!
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
Price? It compares with any pro system out there. (have you priced a 1Dx or D4s lately?)
Real world performance? We'll see but on paper it looks very good.
A new direction and it wouldn't be the first time the Pros have ditched their gear and moved over to another brand.
(think the Canon Nikon switch and back again)
Meanwhile Sony is still a contender. I bet they have some juicy gear in development.
Real world performance? We'll see but on paper it looks very good.
A new direction and it wouldn't be the first time the Pros have ditched their gear and moved over to another brand.
(think the Canon Nikon switch and back again)
Meanwhile Sony is still a contender. I bet they have some juicy gear in development.
JHP
Well-known
Will an EVF really ever replace an optical finder?
I struggle with that...
I struggle with that...
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
anggono
Newbie
I thought Leica is going to pursue the Q line, perhaps with a 50mm model. But now they decide to take on Canon and Nikon. I wonder if this is the idea of Master Blackstone at the helm of the company.
B-9
Devin Bro
Im lost as to how this is at all groundbreaking...
Looks like another ugly piece of 2 day hype...
They definately could have done alot more with the styling alone... Ergonomics do not look good at all...
Come ye' naysayers join me in the flame
Looks like another ugly piece of 2 day hype...
They definately could have done alot more with the styling alone... Ergonomics do not look good at all...
Come ye' naysayers join me in the flame
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Clone of Sony and even Fuji to me. And same ugliness. Was it done by Olympus first with OM-D?
But some people likes SLRs even without OVF...
But some people likes SLRs even without OVF...
f16sunshine
Moderator
Can't join ya.
It's too early to tell for sure. I think Leica has hit on something some folks are actually wanting.
Just a couple weeks ago I started a thread begging Fuji to offer a pro mirrorless body for their X system lenses.
A full size body with a big butt battery and processor to deliver files without delay at any step of the workflow.
So far all the mirrorless offerings have been hampered by too small bodies with too small "sony guts".
This new camera looks like a great step in the right direction.
I Still hope Fuji follows with a simialr body for their smaller lenses and lighter weight image files.
It's a wild elfin bet. Lets see what happens.
B-9
Devin Bro
Maybe Fuji will hear your call in a Xpro II Andy?
Ide really like to see Fuji offer something new with a OVF!
I really liked the look of the XT-10, wish Leica would have opted for a more "nostalgiac" look and control layout. I guess the knobs and dials trend is losing momentum...
Ide really like to see Fuji offer something new with a OVF!
I really liked the look of the XT-10, wish Leica would have opted for a more "nostalgiac" look and control layout. I guess the knobs and dials trend is losing momentum...
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I owned and used Pentax 645 equipment for three or five years. I also currently own a complete set of Leica R lenses from 19 to 180 mm, and two Leicaflex SLs.
- When it comes to lens performance, the best of Pentax 645 lenses is quite good but doesn't hold a candle to what I get out of Leica R lenses. It was the size of the film compared to 35mm format that made a difference with Pentax 645 film gear. That difference collapses in the face of an excellent 24 Mpixel sensor vs an excellent 39 Mpixel sensor. The size of the sensor really contributes in largest measure to DoF control, which I'll give up a little bit of ... But I have faster R lenses that are more compact than 645 lenses.
- The size, weight, and proportions of the Leica SL are within a couple of millimeters and grams of the Leicaflex SL, which just happens to be, for me, one of the absolute best, most ergonomic cameras ever designed. It is to me a much more balanced and handy shape than any Pentax 645 has ever been, including the 645Z. All the Pentax 645s have been somewhat boxy and ungainly in the hand, and the lenses are large, heavy and expensive.
- Having had a good bit of experience with Pentax over the period from 2004 to 2010, I have to say I simply don't trust them for service and support. I've been dealing with Leica USA for almost forty years: They have always provided me with outstanding service and support.
Don't get me wrong, the 645Z is a fine camera and very reasonably priced for a medium format digital. But, for me, the Leica SL poses significant advantages and, since I only need a body, adapter, and a couple of batteries, will actually cost me less—only as much as my Leica M-P did, in fact. The Pentax would cost me twice that at least once I built a decent four to five lens system.
Of course, there's no way to measure "utmost image quality" in any absolute sense anyway, and the Leica SL hasn't shipped yet so doing comparisons isn't really possible at this time anyway. But I trust my R lenses through long familiarity, I trust Leica through long experience, and I can confidently say that I'm sure I'll be happier with an SL than. 645Z.
I'll be in the market for one in about two years. No need to rush or consider October 2015...
G
YYV_146
Well-known
Pentax film lenses, I agree. Have you tested any of the Pentax digital 645 lenses (designed for the 44*33 format)?
Those are amazing. Most hold their own against the Leica S lineup. And for the lowly price of $3-4k each.