The Leica SL: the new AF Leica

[Pete B]

I know this has already been talked about but I still can't get over how large the overall system is (body + lens). Stylistically you can see the body cues from the old Leicaflex SL lines, but ergonomically the Typ 601 looks like a large, difficult-to-manage camera.

But J Slack, who's actually used it, enjoyed the experience; both ergonomics and image quality.
Pete

 

[Corran]

Of course speed can be useful.

Well considering the 11fps is at a fixed focus point, that vastly reduces its usefulness in most situations one would use that. Let's also consider the typical times where 11fps would be used - sports, wildlife - where they have no (current production) lenses to suit.

If you or anyone else wants to machine-gun 11fps at their portrait shoot...well have at it...

 

[jsrockit]

What would be the advantage of this, over an M240, if one only wanted to use M lenses ?

EVF shows you when your lenses are in focus since you are viewing through the lens?

 

[Lss]

Let's also consider the typical times where 11fps would be used - sports, wildlife

A fast exposure-to-exposure time can be useful in many cases, and the point may not at all be focus tracking or long lenses. I don't use continuous often on my M8, because it is fairly slow at around 2fps. A higher speed allows for more cases where continuous can be used effectively.

Anyway, it is not 100% marketing. It is a feature.

 

[bobby_novatron]

From CNET's review of the SL Typ 601:

"It's like Leica ignored 20 years of ergonomics research in grip design, including its own. There's no shape to it whatsoever, and it gets tiring and uncomfortable to hold. This is basic. Does it make the camera unusable? No. But a $7,500 camera should feel much better to hold than the SL does."

And...from mingthein:

"though the grip is substantial, it is too straight and not sufficiently contoured for you to support the camera’s weight comfortably. The only way to shoot this combination is by supporting the lens in your left hand. I honestly didn’t find the grip comfortable, and landed up with sore fingers and a claw after a day of shooting it."

 

[Corran]

It is a feature.

You're right, it is a feature. I just believe that it was put in solely for the marketing angle.

 

[Lss]

Naturally it is a feature that is used in marketing, at least when it comes to a product launch. It's a number and it's a very good number. Stuff like that is easy to understand for marketers and it is easy to understand for those customers who spec-shop their purchases. Product A does this, product B does that.

But this is predominantly a useful, technical feature for many a photographer. It was put in the camera because they could achieve that performance and because users find it useful. Like I said, its usefulness is not limited to focus tracking on long lenses. I would like to have at least something like 8 fps on my M8, while zone focusing a 35-mm equivalent lens.

 

[KM-25]

I have nothing against the size & weight of it really but the ergonomics make that a pretty big issue, those are pain inducing hard angles on it. The feature set is pretty awesome and I hope Nikon comes out with something similar but only if the shutter operation is *really* quiet which brings up question.

Any word on how quiet this thing is?

 

[jpfisher]

What would be the advantage of this, over an M240, if one only wanted to use M lenses ?

Well, it works with the DR Summicron. So there's that.

But it won't mount a v1 Elmarit 28mm (with the deep rear element), nor (presumably) the Super-Angulon.

 

[Duane Pandorf]

I have nothing against the size & weight of it really but the ergonomics make that a pretty big issue, those are pain inducing hard angles on it. The feature set is pretty awesome and I hope Nikon comes out with something similar but only if the shutter operation is *really* quiet which brings up question.

Any word on how quiet this thing is?

From Jono Slack's field report over at GetDPI:

(http://www.getdpi.com/wp/2015/10/the-leica-sl/)

"The shutter of the SL is really really quiet – deliciously so, and with the mass of the body, I don’t think that shutter shock could ever be a problem (certainly I’ve found no evidence of it), in terms of stealth, the camera is quiet enough to shoot in any conditions without disturbing the subject."

 

[bobby_novatron]

Quote: "The shutter of the SL is really really quiet – deliciously so, and with the mass of the body, I don’t think that shutter shock could ever be a problem (certainly I’ve found no evidence of it), in terms of stealth, the camera is quiet enough to shoot in any conditions without disturbing the subject."

That last sentence made me laugh. Quiet enough -- yes. But visually? "Don't mind me, I'm just waving a huge German-made brick-sized camera in front of you. Just relax and ignore the Howitzer shell-sized lens near your face. It's like I'm not even here."

 

[David_Manning]

I'm not a professional, but having tackled some subjects in less-than-perfect conditions, I'd guess a professional camera would need to be big-enough to grip in inclement conditions. It would also need to be useful while the photographer wore gloves.

As has been mentioned, this isn't a walk-around camera. It's the start of Leica's professional system (I don't want to argue the M in professional use...lots online about that already). I just don't see a price point that makes it indispensable to working photojournalists or their agencies, who buy pro cameras and lenses in bulk for pool use.

The SL has good specs indeed for a pro camera. I do wonder about the wide-spread acceptance of an EVF. As tools, I shoot a Fuji X-T1 and also a Canon 5DmkII. The Canon is so outclassed by modern standards, on paper it just looks useless. However, it's got a bright optical finder that I can shoot under most conditions, I can shoot it with gloves on (definitely NOT with the X-T1), and it fits my hands for hours of comfortable use (although the bulk drives me to my M9 for casual photography).

For true professional acceptance, Leica has a LONG way to go to match the flexibility of the CaNikon systems. Forget the body for a moment...go online and look at the variety of lenses and accessories a mature system like Nikon or Canon offers. Leica is outclassed here.

So, lots of walking uphill for Leica in the pro realm, I think.

 

[bobby_novatron]

I'm no professional either (closer to amateur / hack, really) but if I were going to plunk down $7500+ for a SL Typ 601 Leica body for pro work, I would probably seriously consider moving upscale and just buy a Leica S-E Typ 006. It's a difference of $3-4K but you'd be getting a medium-format system with a decent readily-available range of lenses to boot.

Of course, the SL has the advantage of using 'heritage' or 'vintage' glass (R and M lenses) through soon-to-arrive adapters.

Random thought: if the SL Type 601 has a newly-designed 24MP sensor, could / would Leica do a refresh of the M-body and put the newer 24MP sensor in the M-body? THAT would make me sit up and take notice. I don't need 4K video or GPS etc., but the insertion of the new sensor in a M-mount body would be cause for celebration.

 

[giganova]

Have to give them credit for thinking outside the box and for pushing what is technologically possible. Think about it: the first mirror-less pro DSLR, compatible with pretty much any high-end lens (incl cine lenses).

I think the design is stunning -- pure simplicity. Love it. It looks big, but not bigger than a top of the line Canikon, and it's not much more expensive either.

This will be a huge hit for Leica!

 

[Godfrey]

My R lenses have a new home ...

The Leica SL is darn near identical to the Leicaflex SL/SL2 in size:

Leica SL
width 145mm
depth 36mm
height 103mm
weight 900 gm with batteries

Leicaflex SL2
width 146mm
depth 39mm
height 94mm
weight 818 grm (with batteries)​

​

This makes me happy!

G

 

[aizan]

i don't mind the size. big lenses, big camera. i was hoping for a mini-S, and that's what we got...except for the central shutter lenses. image stabilization would have been good, too. those two features would have made the camera a lot more compelling.

what's that bump to the left of the evf? it's my only nitpick about the design just from looking at it.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Godfrey, I gotta say, getting an A7 has made me take a long hard look at those R lenses. You can get a solid 28-50-90 set for under a thousand bucks, at the moment. I'm wondering if these designs might be superior to M glass on a full frame mirrorless. You have recommendations?

 

[Godfrey]

I'm no professional either (closer to amateur / hack, really) but if I were going to plunk down $7500+ for a SL Typ 601 Leica body for pro work, I would probably seriously consider moving upscale and just buy a Leica S-E Typ 006. It's a difference of $3-4K but you'd be getting a medium-format system with a decent readily-available range of lenses to boot.

Of course, the SL has the advantage of using 'heritage' or 'vintage' glass (R and M lenses) through soon-to-arrive adapters.

Random thought: if the SL Type 601 has a newly-designed 24MP sensor, could / would Leica do a refresh of the M-body and put the newer 24MP sensor in the M-body? THAT would make me sit up and take notice. I don't need 4K video or GPS etc., but the insertion of the new sensor in a M-mount body would be cause for celebration.

The body is a difference of $3-4K BUT the S series cannot be used with M or T or R lenses. The cost of lenses is the majority cost of a system. I don't know that I'd call a brand new Leica Summicron-M 50mm f/2 APO "heritage or vintage glass", or even my lowly Summarit-M 75mm f/2.4 for that matter. My R lenses date from as far back as 1963, but they're generally right up to spec with 'modern' lenses ... a couple were still in production until 2006 or so.

The difference between a 33x44mm sensor and a 24x36 sensor is rather small in terms of what it will net you in DoF control, and there are a lot of extremely good, fast R and M lenses to take advantage of that would cost you tens of thousands of dollars to replicate in S lenses. Likewise, the difference between 24 and 39 Mpixel is pretty small. The adaptation can be done now, immediately, by stacking the already available M to T and R to M adapters, both from Leica and providing all the lens correction and EXIF data as desired.

I think we can all be pretty certain that Leica will use the new, updated sensor (or an even more recent derivative of it) in the next M "typ" series. Why wouldn't they?

Leica has achieved with the SL what most folks dream about: an optimized solution that allows use of (nearly) any lens they've ever made, all the way back to the 1930s. Can't say enough good about that.

G

 

[doolittle]

Might appeal to high end wedding photographers looking to differentiate themselves, lens line up so far just about passable. An Einsteigsmodel S.
The comfort of the camera is a bit worrying, ergonomics are important.
I can see a lot of merit in the camera. If the EVF is really as good as they say, hope it makes it way into other cameras that I might actually own (i.e. Panasonics ).

 

[Lss]

As has been mentioned, this isn't a walk-around camera.

Put almost any M mount lens on it, and it is very much a walk-around camera. It is only slightly larger than an M. It is admittedly unnecessarily heavy for this purpose, but still quite okay. If you use two bodies the (unnecessary) weight really adds up, though.