The Leica SL: What is Leica thinking?

[rbelyell]

did you see the picture? her open hand cannot get around more than 1/3 of the lens! seriously? its 82mm! cmon now, reality check anyone? lets pretend sigma put this out, you still behind it? dont think so, not at all.

 

[Timmyjoe]

I guess I'm just a little confused about what need the Leica SL fills. It seems like a slightly oversized DSLR without anything standout-isn about its CMOS sensor, quite a steep asking price for the body, and a set of auto focus lenses whose stats don't really add up to what is offered by Canon/Nikon, at a price that is double what the Canon/Nikon lenses go for. Where is the draw to this system? Again, I'm confused by what Leica is trying to do with this camera.

 

[rbelyell]

TJ you understand it perfectly. with the possible exception of the Q, this IS the leica business plan: sell old tech to those with 'red dot fever'. remember the xvario? a fixed lens zoom that tops out at 70/6.5??!! yeah, thats their MO. dont be surprised, dont expect anything different, and expect plaudits from the 'feverish' on this forum for whatever ridiculous retreaded hardware leica puts out.

 

[x-ray]

Actually Leica has by far the best 'pro' service that I've ever used. You will need to contact Leica and prove pro status and if you then have a problem its dealt with very speedily (only used it a couple of times and repair turnaround was within a week I think - I was away one time and the camera was back before I was).

On several occasions I spoke to multiple people at Leica NJ starting with the person that answered the phone to the manager of service and customer relations. I explained I've been A full time commercial photographer shooting for Fortune 500 corporations and major publications for over 45 years. I so said I've been a dedicated Leica user from the beginning of my career in 1968. I was there there is no loaner program, no priority service for pros and no NPS type services period. They were not in the least helpful or interested.

No pro support, no more dollars spent on new Leica gear period. Considering each of 4 trips under warranty of my body and various lenses to NJ at an average of 7 weeks each trip, I can not rely on my equipment (sold it) and can not rely on Leica.

I don't think Leica really cares about the pro market with a dedicated amateur base like they have. If they pick up a few I'm sure they'll be loving it but there arent enough of us with the money to buy a system to worry about.

Having owned a Hasselblad digital system for several years and a Nikon D800 digital system so the SL would have to be truly amazing for me to buy into the system. Without actually using one it's hard to say but it look enormous, heavy and awkward. IMO it's too close in cost to a MF digital system in cost and size to be attractive.

This is just my 2 cents. My needs and expectations are different than yours most likely so you may love it where I would hate it. You might say ymmv.

 

[pgk]

On several occasions I spoke to multiple people at Leica NJ .....

You need to communicate directly with head office - pm me and I'll forward details. I've found the Leica 'pro' service better and faster than either Canon (or Nikon in the past) in the UK, even when dealing direct with Germany.

 

[jsrockit]

did you see the picture? her open hand cannot get around more than 1/3 of the lens! seriously? its 82mm! cmon now, reality check anyone? lets pretend sigma put this out, you still behind it? dont think so, not at all.

You do realize that the 50mm Sigma Art lens is a 77mm filter ring and it sells well. It's 24-70mm F2.8 lens has a 82mm filter ring and sells well.

 

[x-ray]

You need to communicate directly with head office - pm me and I'll forward details. I've found the Leica 'pro' service better and faster than either Canon (or Nikon in the past) in the UK, even when dealing direct with Germany.

I no longer have the camera. It was too unreliable and service too bad. After that experience I have no interest in buying any Leica digital equipment.

The problem was not only the lack of service but the quality of service. One lens had to go back 3 times for the same problem. I finally forced NJ to replace it.
Thanks for the offer!

 

[L. M. Tu]

This is irrelevant to the topic, but that person has breasts and a man's hands, or there is some kind of serious distortion in that picture. 🙂

 

[willie_901]

About Contrast Detection AF

About Contrast Detection AF

The most serious problem with automated (quick) contrast-detection AF is avoiding the focus on unintended objects with higher contrast than the intended focus region objects with lower contrast. This problem is not serious unless the photographer is unfamiliar with CDAF or if the camera does not have a diverse set of focusing modes available for different circumstances.

Since the EVF is said to be a game changer, analog (mechanical) focusing using manual focusing aids may be so efficient, PDAF is redundant.

Still, I am puzzled this camera does not have a phase-sensitive AF mode.

To be fair, implementing PDAF in a mirrorless system does not require a fundamental change in hardware. PDAF is currently implemented in mirrorless systems by assigning small sets of existing pixels for phase detection AF. The small gaps in the image required for PD do noticeably degrade IQ.

So releasing a PDAF version of the camera would be relatively straightforward (even inferior Japanese brands like Fujifilm can do it) and I predict PDAF to be a standard feature before long. In fact it could be the next logical model upgrade.

 

[giganova]

I still think the person is tiny and the camera is not big at all. ;-)

 

[jsrockit]

I still think the person is tiny and the camera is not big at all. ;-)

Today is the camera expo in NYC... I've heard it's big.

 

[x-ray]

Look at the beauty ring on the front of the lens and you'll see the filter size is E82. That's a very large filter. Put a hood on it and imagine the size. Now imagine the size of their 80-200! Add a hood.

 

[Godfrey]

Look at the beauty ring on the front of the lens and you'll see the filter size is E82. That's a very large filter. Put a hood on it and imagine the size. Now imagine the size of their 80-200! Add a hood.

I don't think they're planning an 80-200 at present. The 24-90 BAZOOKA will be complemented by a 90-250 HOWITZER. I love these new Leica codes!

G

 

[Timmyjoe]

To be fair, implementing PDAF in a mirrorless system does not require a fundamental change in hardware. PDAF is currently implemented in mirrorless systems by assigning small sets of existing pixels for phase detection AF. The small gaps in the image required for PD do noticeably degrade IQ.

My mirrorless Nikon 1 V2 has a great PDAF system and that camera has been out for a number of years now. I don't see why Leica couldn't do a PDAF with this new SL camera.

 

[Godfrey]

Enough fun and games. Let's put this VERY HUGE size BS to rest, okay?

Jono Slack's excellent article (http://www.getdpi.com/wp/) shows this picture of Leica SL and Leicaflex SL2 parked next to one another:

He provides measurements:

Leica SL
width 145mm
depth 36mm
height 103mm
weight 900 gm with batteries

Leicaflex SL2
width 146mm
depth 39mm
height 94mm
weight 818 grm (with batteries)
​

Leicaflex SL and SL2 differ in size only marginally, so here's my Leica M-P with Nokton 50 mounted next to my Leicaflex SL with Summilux 50:

I know some of you are going to tell me how fat the M-P is.. 🙂

Note that the Protector half case adds 12mm to the height of the M-P. I didn't bother taking it out of the case. Compared against the M4-2 (also in its half-case), the M-P is 10mm taller, 6mm thicker front to back, and 2mm longer. I don't have a similar half-case for the Leicaflex SL or I'd have shown it sitting in that too.

Yeah, the SL's 24-90/2.8-4 image stabilized zoom lens is a big bazooka, but it's not *that* big. It specs out at:

Filter Thread: 82 mm
Dimensions (DxL): approx. 3.46" x 5.43" (88 x 138 mm)
Weight: 2.51 lb (1140 g)​

That's just a little larger and heavier than my Nikon 180mm f/2.8 AF-D, which takes a 72mm filter. The unfortunate photo of the woman holding the SL with zoom on it, looking like it's a massive lump, shows a LOT of foreshortening and was probably made with someone's cell phone camera, given the DoF, etc.

The Leica SL is a nicely sized body, it will work beautifully with my R lenses for balance and overall feel, will fit in the same bag I currently have the Leicaflex in, etc. I'm not a big zoom lens user so however big the zooms are is not much interest to me. The upcoming Summilux-SL 50mm f/1.4 ASPH is a large lens, in the same vein as most other modern premium lenses; I can only presume this is due to a pretty complex assembly of optics. But I'll be fitting the same evergreen Summilux-R 50/1.4 you see in the photo above.

Life's too short.
G

 

[ForestCap]

Let's just have a more straight forward comparison. No mirrorless EVF camera to SLR or to RF.

source: http://www.photographyblog.com/news/leica_sl_vs_sony_a7r_ii_side_by_side_comparison/

The lenses comparison is another matter...

 

[jsrockit]

Enough fun and games. Let's put this VERY HUGE size BS to rest, okay?

Godfrey, it's big for what people have come to expect from a mirrorless camera. We get that you love it. But it IS big (and also a new type of mirrorless).

 

[f16sunshine]

The non contoured grip is a concern.
I used to have a custom grip for my P67 that was just a straight shot like the new SL.
It was far from ideal.
I'm loving the overall concept. It's a bit of a contradiction being that it seems so well set up for fashion or studio work but, relatively pedestrian resolution for such work.

24mp is not bad it's just sort of yesterday for a camera that otherwise says tomorrow.

 

[Godfrey]

Godfrey, it's big for what people have come to expect from a mirrorless camera. We get that you love it. But it IS big (and also a new type of mirrorless).

People should adjust their expectations and not let a misleading, foreshortened photograph be their guide. If I want a petite, professional quality mirrorless to work with, the Olympus E-M1 is far better at being compact.

G

 

[jsrockit]

People should adjust their expectations and not let a misleading, foreshortened photograph be their guide. If I want a petite, professional quality mirrorless to work with, the Olympus E-M1 is far better at being compact.

I can agree with that.