The Mint Condition Myth:
Why you can’t always trust sellers’ descriptions
By Jason Schneider
“I did my best,” is one of my least favorite expressions, not only because it smacks of self-justification, but because it’s flat out wrong about 99.97% of the time. The time-honored seller’s equivalent, “Mint Condition,” also sets my teeth on edge because the term is frequently misapplied and has become increasingly debased of late. “Mint” as a descriptor originated among numismatists (aka coin collectors) and it refers to the condition of a coin as it left the mint, a metaphor for absolute perfection. So, a camera described as “Mint” should be flawless and pristine, presumably in the exact same condition it was when it left the factory.
Leica IIIg "Mint"? Not quite. Note brassing around the edge of the rewind knob.
Well, based on perusing thousands of listings on eBay and retailers’ online sites I’d hazard a guess that less than 5% of the cameras posted as Mint truly are. Ironically, the incriminating evidence to the contrary can usually be found in the posted photographs of the merchandise. Indeed, that’s why it’s crucial for buyers that these photos are sharp, detailed, and comprehensive, and show the camera from all sides, and inside if possible. The general rule for buyers: Believe what you see, be skeptical of what they say, and if you have any doubts, don’t buy it unless it comes with a no questions asked full refund return option (less the cost return shipping, which is usually borne by the buyer). This is just a 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century update of the ancient Latin dictum, caveat emptor.
Leica IIIg "Mint" Close, but there's a small scratch on the edge of the top plate in front of the film wind knob.
How about “Near Mint” and “Minty?”
Even the most upstanding and honorable sellers now tend to trip up when they describe their wares as “Mint,” because over the years the very concept has eroded to the point where any camera that’s in better than average or “Very Clean” condition appears to qualify. As an ink-stained wordsmith I know this is BS because “Mint,” like “Unique,” is an absolute term that doesn’t admit of degrees—either a camera is “Mint” or isn’t. So, in the attempt to confer the aura of “Mintiness” on objects that are less than pristine, sellers have come up with a number of clever descriptive dodges. By far the most popular is “Near Mint,” which suggests “exceptionally clean, but not flawless.” This a lot better than falsely listing it as “Mint,” but it’s not a perfect solution because flaws considered minor by seller might be deal breakers for the buyer (e.g. you might be willing to overlook a small scratch, but not a small dent). Again, the proof is in the posted pictures, the closest online equivalent to examining the camera in person. Warning: Make sure all significant parts of the camera are visible in the photos—not every seller is conscientious in showing defects, such as a scratched bottom plate or a wrinkled shutter curtain. If the price is low enough you may be willing to take a chance on an “As Is” purchase, but if you’re not satisfied when the camera arrives it’s on you.
Leica IIIg "Mint" This is the real deal, a truly Mint example offered by a leading Japanese retail site.
While terms like “Near Mint” or “Almost Mint” can be used deviously to lure buyers, at least they motivate folks to check out the seller’s posted photos very carefully. The same is true of “Minty” the nauseating equivalent of the used car salesman’s “Like New.” There’s something effete and precious about describing a camera as “Minty,” and that turns me off and makes me less likely to buy it. But if a “Minty” camera appeals to you, check it out and see if you can live with its flaws.
What ever happened to “Excellent?”
The main problem with all verbal descriptions is that they’re inherently subjective. In other words, your “Very Good” might be my “Good,” and your “Fair” might be my “For Parts Only.” The implicit solution is, to quote the original ancient Chinese aphorism so often mistranslated by one order of magnitude, “A picture is worth 10,000 words.” What about “Excellent,” a term that used to be a concise way of saying, “In clean, functional condition without major cosmetic flaws?” Well, sad to say, over the past 5 years or so, good old “Excellent” has acquired a plague of plus signs that I guess are supposed to denote varying levels of excellence. But is a camera advertised as “Excellent +++++” or “Excellent Plus 5” in demonstrably better shape than one labeled “Excellent ++” or “Excellent +++”? Possibly, if it’s offered by the same seller, but there’s no universal standard for how many plusses to add or exactly what they mean, so the whole plus sign thing, perhaps initiated to provide greater clarity, just sows more confusion.
Kudos to the unnamed eBayer who forthrightly listed his battered Rolleicord as “Junk” and to another who threw up his hands,honestly admitting “What you see is what you get. I don’t know anything about cameras or if this thing works or can be fixed.” Actually, “What you see is what you get” is a principle that applies to virtually anything you buy online. That’s why you should take all verbal descriptions with a few tablespoons of salt, and buy things “As Is” only if you’re prepared to forego the purchase price.
However, claiming to know nothing about the dragged behind the truck broken Hitchcock MacGuffen can also be a way of a deceiving the buyer into believing the seller “didn’t know” and so can’t be held responsible This especially applies to eBay “no returns accepted.”
On any selling platform a dedicated thief can play the system successfully most of the time. After all, theft is what they do. Protect yourself as the buyer by using a strong buyer friendly credit card that will likely be on your side. As a seller, it’s probably best to stick to the boundaries of your own country on the big sales platforms, and only ship to the approved shipping address, regardless of what imaginative story the buyer comes up with to ship to another address. If you are selling very expensive items (whatever that is to you), be aware that thieves can NOT reroute UPS Ground to another address, unlike practically all other types of faster shipping.
Look at the seller’s feedback. Over 1000 perfect feedback probably means the seller can be trusted. But watch out when all the seller’s feedback is for toys or books and suddenly the same seller is selling new in the box Leica Ms for a starting bid of $100 – that just screams hacked account most of the time.
Of course, any great seller can make mistakes, but the truly great sellers quickly acknowledge and correct mistakes at their cost.
All of that said, most any seller or buyer can be out to get you. That’s why I never leave my Cheyenne Mountain inspired nuclear shelter without my convoy of armored black Hummers.
Practice safe internet buying the way I do. My true last and best internet defense is only buying used and vintage items that only have the seller’s guarantee to be “eBay New +++” (smirk)
Why you can’t always trust sellers’ descriptions
By Jason Schneider
“I did my best,” is one of my least favorite expressions, not only because it smacks of self-justification, but because it’s flat out wrong about 99.97% of the time. The time-honored seller’s equivalent, “Mint Condition,” also sets my teeth on edge because the term is frequently misapplied and has become increasingly debased of late. “Mint” as a descriptor originated among numismatists (aka coin collectors) and it refers to the condition of a coin as it left the mint, a metaphor for absolute perfection. So, a camera described as “Mint” should be flawless and pristine, presumably in the exact same condition it was when it left the factory.
Leica IIIg "Mint"? Not quite. Note brassing around the edge of the rewind knob.
Well, based on perusing thousands of listings on eBay and retailers’ online sites I’d hazard a guess that less than 5% of the cameras posted as Mint truly are. Ironically, the incriminating evidence to the contrary can usually be found in the posted photographs of the merchandise. Indeed, that’s why it’s crucial for buyers that these photos are sharp, detailed, and comprehensive, and show the camera from all sides, and inside if possible. The general rule for buyers: Believe what you see, be skeptical of what they say, and if you have any doubts, don’t buy it unless it comes with a no questions asked full refund return option (less the cost return shipping, which is usually borne by the buyer). This is just a 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century update of the ancient Latin dictum, caveat emptor.
Leica IIIg "Mint" Close, but there's a small scratch on the edge of the top plate in front of the film wind knob.
How about “Near Mint” and “Minty?”
Even the most upstanding and honorable sellers now tend to trip up when they describe their wares as “Mint,” because over the years the very concept has eroded to the point where any camera that’s in better than average or “Very Clean” condition appears to qualify. As an ink-stained wordsmith I know this is BS because “Mint,” like “Unique,” is an absolute term that doesn’t admit of degrees—either a camera is “Mint” or isn’t. So, in the attempt to confer the aura of “Mintiness” on objects that are less than pristine, sellers have come up with a number of clever descriptive dodges. By far the most popular is “Near Mint,” which suggests “exceptionally clean, but not flawless.” This a lot better than falsely listing it as “Mint,” but it’s not a perfect solution because flaws considered minor by seller might be deal breakers for the buyer (e.g. you might be willing to overlook a small scratch, but not a small dent). Again, the proof is in the posted pictures, the closest online equivalent to examining the camera in person. Warning: Make sure all significant parts of the camera are visible in the photos—not every seller is conscientious in showing defects, such as a scratched bottom plate or a wrinkled shutter curtain. If the price is low enough you may be willing to take a chance on an “As Is” purchase, but if you’re not satisfied when the camera arrives it’s on you.
Leica IIIg "Mint" This is the real deal, a truly Mint example offered by a leading Japanese retail site.
While terms like “Near Mint” or “Almost Mint” can be used deviously to lure buyers, at least they motivate folks to check out the seller’s posted photos very carefully. The same is true of “Minty” the nauseating equivalent of the used car salesman’s “Like New.” There’s something effete and precious about describing a camera as “Minty,” and that turns me off and makes me less likely to buy it. But if a “Minty” camera appeals to you, check it out and see if you can live with its flaws.
What ever happened to “Excellent?”
The main problem with all verbal descriptions is that they’re inherently subjective. In other words, your “Very Good” might be my “Good,” and your “Fair” might be my “For Parts Only.” The implicit solution is, to quote the original ancient Chinese aphorism so often mistranslated by one order of magnitude, “A picture is worth 10,000 words.” What about “Excellent,” a term that used to be a concise way of saying, “In clean, functional condition without major cosmetic flaws?” Well, sad to say, over the past 5 years or so, good old “Excellent” has acquired a plague of plus signs that I guess are supposed to denote varying levels of excellence. But is a camera advertised as “Excellent +++++” or “Excellent Plus 5” in demonstrably better shape than one labeled “Excellent ++” or “Excellent +++”? Possibly, if it’s offered by the same seller, but there’s no universal standard for how many plusses to add or exactly what they mean, so the whole plus sign thing, perhaps initiated to provide greater clarity, just sows more confusion.
Kudos to the unnamed eBayer who forthrightly listed his battered Rolleicord as “Junk” and to another who threw up his hands,honestly admitting “What you see is what you get. I don’t know anything about cameras or if this thing works or can be fixed.” Actually, “What you see is what you get” is a principle that applies to virtually anything you buy online. That’s why you should take all verbal descriptions with a few tablespoons of salt, and buy things “As Is” only if you’re prepared to forego the purchase price.
However, claiming to know nothing about the dragged behind the truck broken Hitchcock MacGuffen can also be a way of a deceiving the buyer into believing the seller “didn’t know” and so can’t be held responsible This especially applies to eBay “no returns accepted.”
On any selling platform a dedicated thief can play the system successfully most of the time. After all, theft is what they do. Protect yourself as the buyer by using a strong buyer friendly credit card that will likely be on your side. As a seller, it’s probably best to stick to the boundaries of your own country on the big sales platforms, and only ship to the approved shipping address, regardless of what imaginative story the buyer comes up with to ship to another address. If you are selling very expensive items (whatever that is to you), be aware that thieves can NOT reroute UPS Ground to another address, unlike practically all other types of faster shipping.
Look at the seller’s feedback. Over 1000 perfect feedback probably means the seller can be trusted. But watch out when all the seller’s feedback is for toys or books and suddenly the same seller is selling new in the box Leica Ms for a starting bid of $100 – that just screams hacked account most of the time.
Of course, any great seller can make mistakes, but the truly great sellers quickly acknowledge and correct mistakes at their cost.
All of that said, most any seller or buyer can be out to get you. That’s why I never leave my Cheyenne Mountain inspired nuclear shelter without my convoy of armored black Hummers.
Practice safe internet buying the way I do. My true last and best internet defense is only buying used and vintage items that only have the seller’s guarantee to be “eBay New +++” (smirk)
