The Modern Camera and the Dilution of Effort.

Andy K said:
I can't believe that is it! Someone expressing their lack of surprise at your reaction? THAT is the terrible insult? I thought you had a thicker skin than that Bill.

No, Andy, not that. The statement that clearly I had not read the piece, coupled with the "lack of surprise" with my reaction. That implies that I don't read what you have to say, I just react with a knee-jerk response that can be predicted.

I read it, I considered it, I disagreed with it and said so as politely as I could.

You implied I did not - and THAT, my friend, is insulting to me. I gave you my full attention, time, and thoughtful comments - you tossed it back in my face with a off-the-cuff comment that implied I don't care enough to consider your points.

Bill, I want you to state specifically where I have actually insulted you in this thread. So far you shy away from doing so and have pointed out a nothing comment as a supposed 'insult'. If you cannot be specific about a real insult, then please desist from making false accusations.

Andy, I have stated it, and you have referred to it. This is as clear as I can make it.

Do I have thick skin? You bet I do. I dish it, and I can take it. Fat jokes, bald jokes, whatever. Disagree with my opinions? Fine, no problem. I've got a huge ego, and I well know it. From time to time, I've been taken down a peg or two, and I can take that, too.

I don't like having my intellectual integrity challenged. I'm a lot of things, Andy, but I am honest. You asked for a reading, you got it. You posted, presumably for comments, and you got my considered response.

Shrug it off if you wish. Disagree with it if you wish. But don't pretend I didn't read it or did not care to give my full attention and considered response. THAT, I find insulting.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Toby said:
There seems to be a trend here. I don't subscribe to this idea that the method and the medium are as important as the end result.

Toby ,

that is not a trend, it is reality, isn't it ?! 🙂
Of course the method and the process influence the result. It always did.
Take glass negs or film or digital, chose developer, paper ,ink , software different printing systems or what ever element of the process, the result will always look influenced by the medium, the process and the methods.
That is obvious and trivial, what sense does it make to deny it ?

bertram
 
bmattock said:
No, Andy, not that. The statement that clearly I had not read the piece, coupled with the "lack of surprise" with my reaction. That implies that I don't read what you have to say, I just react with a knee-jerk response that can be predicted.


What utter nonsense! NOWHERE did I say you had not read the piece. All of this over that one little comment? The ONLY comment directed to you was the one about my lack of surprise. For someone who claims to have a thick skin you certainly are very sensitive Bill.

The following is directed at you. You use words like 'imply' and 'presumably' which shows you are guessing at my intent and complaining about perceptions and not actual written statements actually addressed to you. You have created several pages of fuss over nothing. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.
 
Reading these essays....it's amazing.
A person has to think very highly of himself to dispense such advice. It's one thing to express those thoughts in discussion, and another entirely to lay them out in lectures so lesser lights can benefit from your knowlege.
If ego powered creativity, then this guy might actualy be an artist.
 
I noticed there was increased traffic on my site again, and saw the Dilution link has been posted to yet another photo forum (it was posted to four forums yesterday, according to my referrer list). Happens every 8 months or so, though it's been over a year since the last one--I was beginning to think everyone had read it already.

First, thanks to everyone for their comments. Even the critical ones. I always find myself nodding in agreement to any comment expressed well.

By way of history, this was written back in my early PhotoSIG days, when I tried to comment on many photographs posted there for comment. After a couple weeks of commenting on stuff that didn't show a lot of preparation, I wrote the essay sitting in a Walmart parking lot waiting for my sister to get some picnic supplies. I posted it to a PhotoSIG forum, where it got some discussion (though not as good a discussion as it got here; I loved the Vestal quotation, said it so much better than I could). The whole point of writing it was to get the posters of photos to give us the ones they'd thought about, not just came across. It didn't work, and I abandoned PhotoSIG soon thereafter.

Anyway, for those who missed the subtitle, it's an essay about the craft of photography, not about the speed of shooting, or a minimal contemplation time before handling the camera. Continuing the Jazz metaphor, it's about learning what the valves on a trumpet do before you try to improvise. So many photographers leave all decisions to the camera that they don't know what decisions are being made. I have another essay about controlling color saturation, written because there were so many snapshottists at PhotoSIG who had no idea that saturation was controllable during the shot (preferring to do all saturation and exposure corrections in post, or not at all).

And of course the astute observers in human nature knew what was going on the whole time: like all people, I complain most about my own worst faults. I'm happy to report I have found a medium which matches my own skill level quite nicely: time-lapse videography. The necessarily slow nature of shooting time lapse (4-16 hrs/shot) means I need to scout a location, understand the daily weather, etc. before I set up the camera. There is some early raw footage on my website also. I've pretty much abandoned still photography of late (to the relief of some of you, I note).

So thank you, one and all, critical or admiring, for reading and thinking enough about the topic to comment here. That was one of the outcomes I'd hoped for when I posted it.

I'm off to the desert for a week, and will look at this thread again when I get back to answer any questions you might have for me--or my ego. 😀

Bruce
 
Andy K said:
What utter nonsense! NOWHERE did I say you had not read the piece.

' ' Sounds to me like most of those disagreeing did not read as far as this:' '

I guess I must be blind, then. Sure looks like you said it.

All of this over that one little comment? The ONLY comment directed to you was the one about my lack of surprise. For someone who claims to have a thick skin you certainly are very sensitive Bill.

Sensitive about an insinuation that I was not intellectually honest enough to actually read the piece before criticizing it? Yes.

The following is directed at you. You use words like 'imply' and 'presumably' which shows you are guessing at my intent and complaining about perceptions and not actual written statements actually addressed to you. You have created several pages of fuss over nothing. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

I'm not making anything out of anything. I said I found your statements insulting. I replied to your demands that I explain why. You can take what you want from that. And I think that is all I have to say on this subject.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
You made a false accusation, I called you on it. You have nothing to back up your accusation.

I addressed one comment to you. One. My lack of surprise. Obviously your large ego (your words not mine) believes every comment is directed to you. Well here's news for you, not everything is about you Bill... You know what Bill, I could go on, but I really don't care about you or your imagined insults anymore.
 
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I am really impressed by Bruce Wilson's post in this thread. It was a thoughtful, humble reply to comments about his essay (some of which contained attacks on his photographic skill and perceived self-importance). I wonder how many regulars here would show such class if they were similarly impugned.
 
I've not yet had anyone attack my photographic skills or my ego online. I don't think that's because I'm brilliant or even modest.
I have, however, tried to avoid sounding as though I have an answer to any particular question that should/would apply to everyone.

That said, I agree with you on Mr. Wilson's post.

Andrew Sowerby said:
I am really impressed by Bruce Wilson's post in this thread. It was a thoughtful, humble reply to comments about his essay (some of which contained attacks on his photographic skill and perceived self-importance). I wonder how many regulars here would show such class if they were similarly impugned.
 
Bertram2 said:
Toby ,

that is not a trend, it is reality, isn't it ?! 🙂
Of course the method and the process influence the result. It always did.
Take glass negs or film or digital, chose developer, paper ,ink , software different printing systems or what ever element of the process, the result will always look influenced by the medium, the process and the methods.
That is obvious and trivial, what sense does it make to deny it ?

bertram


Obviously choice of medium influences end product what I was hoping to express is that in some peoples eyes certain types of process are inherently more 'virtuous' than others. In other words if you develop your own negatives and make your own prints you are somehow more of a photographer no matter what the end result is like. Some would say black and white is 'better' than colour. I used to dev all my own films and spend hours in the darkroom, I don't anymore but I would say I'm more technically accomplished now and probably a better all round photographer. Darkroom skills were very important to my personal development but whether I printed a picture myself is largely irrelevent to how much you like the image. I sometimes feel that in this forum a digital image made on a state of the art camera would receive less kudos than an identical image made on beat up M3 and that to me makes no sense.
 
dazedgonebye said:
I've not yet had anyone attack my photographic skills or my ego online. I don't think that's because I'm brilliant or even modest.
I have, however, tried to avoid sounding as though I have an answer to any particular question that should/would apply to everyone.

A fair comment. I wasn't calling you out or saying that people have no right to take the quality of an artist's work into account when evaluating what the artist has to say about technique. I was simply impressed by the civility of Bruce Wilson's response to those who have posted in this thread, including his detractors.
 
I took no offense and we are in complete agreement.

Andrew Sowerby said:
A fair comment. I wasn't calling you out or saying that people have no right to take the quality of an artist's work into account when evaluating what the artist has to say about technique. I was simply impressed by the civility of Bruce Wilson's response to those who have posted in this thread, including his detractors.
 
Toby said:
I sometimes feel that in this forum a digital image made on a state of the art camera would receive less kudos than an identical image made on beat up M3 and that to me makes no sense.

If identical, it makes no sense to me either.

Bertram
 
A rant.

That photography has become less of a craft in recent years, and in the shadow of technological advances is not, I don't think, really happening.

I don't think it has become less of a craft. Or at least, I think that there are as many or more crafty photographers now as there have ever been. There is a much larger market for cameras, a much more extensive set of niches, a larger variety of cameras and breeds of photography. There are multiple technologies in action. There is a much larger pool of images floating around the world now that technology has made it so reasonable for the multitude to produce them. That diminishes the value of each image, maybe, and demands a bit more of a work to really capture of the attention of the viewer. And the critic. People who criticize the new direction in the craft are really probably looking more for something unique than something low-tech. And applying filters and warps in photoshop doesn’t count.

The advent of digital and before that, fully automatic technologies, has had only the effect of making what was once a very difficult, time consuming art or craft into a mainstream hobby. It has made professional photography more efficient, more accurate, more effective. Surely Ansel Adams would have loved to have had a very fast AF medium format camera or a Linhof Technorama 617. How many times had he missed the perfect moment, when all the lighting and colors, the birds and clouds and wind were all perfect? Many times. He would have been a great user of large format digital cameras and photoshop too.

It has also - and this is where the illusion of loss occurs - simplified the process - made it accessible to the masses. It hasn't simplified the entire variety of tools, but has created a massive breed of simple cameras and their relative software and accessories that appeal to the larger portion of the market – those who aren’t into photography in the classic sense.

The flood of snapshot culture into the “photography” hobby is another factor. I don’t, for one, believe that one can call snapshots “photography”. They are record, like video or audio recordings. Made to remember instead of to present something visually that doesn’t come across entirely through its subject matter. Form, composition, lighting, texture. . . all these are the makings of photographs and you won’t see or hear or read of any attention to those aspects in the snapshot digicam crowd. But they still call it photography. HP and Canon and Nikon and Olympus still call it that. Because it doesn’t have a name yet. It is a derivative of photography – a practical use of the mass market camera and process.

HCB’s style actually very closely resembles the snapshot style we have today. His specialty was the moment – the decisive moment – and all of the modern technology that has come along in the last 30 years is actually very much in the spirit of that. AF, auto metering, motor drives, the entire digital thing. All very HCB in the most basic sense. So where is the key difference between my sister’s snapshots and HCB’s own? I honestly can’t say. Would anyone say that his work was any more crafty than the same thing done with a Canon Powershot digicam and touched up in PS? Is the speed of the process really that relevant? I think so, but that is really a personal thing and I don’t think it has any actual validity.

People are looking at the photography trade/hobby/craft/art from too far back, and taking in the enormous size of the digital/AFSLR market along with the slow, deliberate, nex-gen Ansel Adams and HCB types - and saying, "wow, where is our craft going?" They aren’t respecting the DSLR user with the enormous zoom lens and 4GB memory cards, powerdrive, VR, etc. Those guys and gals are just “getting something to do the work for them”. Maybe they are. If they’re pros, they are and it makes sense. But maybe they are looking at all the same aspects of the image that our most highly esteemed old timers did. Maybe they have as much of an eye for composition as Ansel Adams and as much of an appreciation for the moment as HCB, but they also appreciate the assurance that comes with the LCD viewing screen and full auto when necessary. They don’t like working with chemicals or loading film. In the end, they are producing wonderful work with equal levels of care and craft as anything traditional but it gets thrown into the “digital” pile with the billions of other digimages by some film purists. And disregarded as art.

Of course, the craft is still there, it's just been made smaller in comparison to the new mass market. There may even be a greater number of photographic artists - the sort whose existence would please the old timers - but in comparison to the digital millions, that population is rapidly shrinking.

When there is just so much of something, it becomes less valuable or unique on an individual basis. Look at music now. Compare a modern composer to Mozart. Back in the day, the whole thing was more difficult, time consuming, there were only a handful of great artists in the world because very few people had access to the tools. Now, the little kid down the street who would never have been able to afford a grand piano and a string accompaniment has a synthesizer, electronic drums, and garage band software on his computer. Now there are millions of artists. There are old timers who look at electronica or rock and disrespect it. It’s not “music”, they say.
 
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