Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Sorry to hi-jack the thread (lies) but what think ye of the humble Summitar in comparison to the Summar. I have numerous Summitars due to the fact that every screwmount Leica I have ever bought has had one on it. I like the sound of the Summar's softness because sharp is not my prefered look ... and since I took some shots recently with a dusty old 35mm Summaron I'm hooked on the quality it gives to images!
Methinks I will sell one of the four idle Summitars that languish on the shelf and seek out a Summar.
Methinks I will sell one of the four idle Summitars that languish on the shelf and seek out a Summar.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Or as Zhang might say "the Contax is the capitalist Kiev!" 
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
I prefer to think about the Kiev as "Contax for the discerning photographer" 
Nick, good luck on your Zorki/Summar combo, looking forward to the pics.
Nick, good luck on your Zorki/Summar combo, looking forward to the pics.
R
ruben
Guest
Ho Nick,
Just yesterday I happened to pass by a site called "camerareview.com" looking for users commentaries about the Lynx 1000. Upon not finding them I went to the Lynx 14e, where 14 reviewers rated it from from 4 to 5 out of five, averaging 4.71
Ok, but who are these reviewers ? I looked looked looked and finally found the corner where the names are.
The first review, and the most eloquent one, is yours'.
What a sad moment to find it !
Real Poor Man's Leica ?
What is poor? what is a man ? what Leica ? is all these for Real ?
What is happening to the Real man, spiritually Reach & sentimentally Proud Yashica Owner ? If he is sleeping, do him a favour.
Cheer up !
Ruben
Just yesterday I happened to pass by a site called "camerareview.com" looking for users commentaries about the Lynx 1000. Upon not finding them I went to the Lynx 14e, where 14 reviewers rated it from from 4 to 5 out of five, averaging 4.71
Ok, but who are these reviewers ? I looked looked looked and finally found the corner where the names are.
The first review, and the most eloquent one, is yours'.
What a sad moment to find it !
Real Poor Man's Leica ?
What is poor? what is a man ? what Leica ? is all these for Real ?
What is happening to the Real man, spiritually Reach & sentimentally Proud Yashica Owner ? If he is sleeping, do him a favour.
Cheer up !
Ruben
Last edited by a moderator:
reagan
hey, they're only Zorkis
ruben, I always enjoy your views and posts. But please forgive me here - I really don't get this.ruben said:Ho Nick... What a sad moment to find it ! Real Poor Man's Leica ? What is poor? what is a man ? what Leica ? is all these for Real ? What is happening to the Real man, spiritually Reach & sentimentally Proud Yashica Owner ? If he is sleeping, do him a favour.
R
ruben
Guest
CVBLZ4 said:ruben, I always enjoy your views and posts. But please forgive me here - I really don't get this.
Thank you, CVBLZ4. By now let's be patient and wait for Nick's reaction, or no reaction. There is a chance he does understand me.
Ok, I will explain mayself a bit. For me going leica or not, is a basic issue. Not an issue of moral principles of course, as there is nothing unmoral there. But all this fiddling with the poor man combo, sounds to me as a not here and not there compromise, not advancing the good initiatives Nick took in the past with his Yashicas.
Of course Nick is a grown boy and a free man by birth. But i will be missing him more in proudly advocating the Yashicas than by proposing poor man's combos.
And of course, these are my feelings, not Nick's. Nick is no less entitled to have his own feelings and initiatives.
Cheers,
Ruben
reagan
hey, they're only Zorkis
Ooookay there, ruben. Well, I'd concur with Nick's earlier re:
Cheers.NickTrop said:"... it seems to me you're reading a bit much into a common expression."
Jcrvlh
Newbie
Hello all. It is fantastic to come back here after so long and see so much enthusiasm. On the subject of the incompatibility of leica –FSU and vice versa you should read Dante’s article if you haven’t yet:
http://www.dantestella.com/technical/compat.html
I have lots of cameras most are FSU Rangefinders except for the medium format gear. I have no Leica lens but have a wide range of FSU. Including Jupiter 3-8-12 orion 15 industar 61- 26- 50. I own 4 bodies- 2 FED2s, FED 3a and Zorki 3M. The point about using the rangefinder is that it is easy to focus and have pin sharp pictures. When I started taking pictures wide open to exploit the out of focus background I had a lot of out of focus pictures. It only takes a couple of inches out and the ear is in focus instead of the cheek! No good.
So I got a Rangefinder to mount on the hot shoe and proceeded to test my cameras with all different lenses. Took measurements with the cameras placed on the tripod and used a newspaper on the wall. I was horrified. All cameras gave me different distances! I love tinkering with my cameras, but back then, almost a year ago I almost resorted to… dare I say- Go digital completely! After a lot of pictures on the screen and no prints, I finally decided I would attempt to fix them myself. It is easy to shift the bit that couples onto the lens rangefinder lip. However it is sensitive and a little too much I was out by miles wow. Pictures are sharp now, I have checked it a couple more times just to make sure it hadn’t gone out from changing lenses and all cameras are keeping calibration.
Just to finish off, my “poor man’s leica” is Zorki 3M and Fed 3a with a Jupiter 3 f 1:1.5
Main thing is to calibrate the camera to the lens you are using.
Thank you for this post. I want a Summar too!
http://www.dantestella.com/technical/compat.html
I have lots of cameras most are FSU Rangefinders except for the medium format gear. I have no Leica lens but have a wide range of FSU. Including Jupiter 3-8-12 orion 15 industar 61- 26- 50. I own 4 bodies- 2 FED2s, FED 3a and Zorki 3M. The point about using the rangefinder is that it is easy to focus and have pin sharp pictures. When I started taking pictures wide open to exploit the out of focus background I had a lot of out of focus pictures. It only takes a couple of inches out and the ear is in focus instead of the cheek! No good.
So I got a Rangefinder to mount on the hot shoe and proceeded to test my cameras with all different lenses. Took measurements with the cameras placed on the tripod and used a newspaper on the wall. I was horrified. All cameras gave me different distances! I love tinkering with my cameras, but back then, almost a year ago I almost resorted to… dare I say- Go digital completely! After a lot of pictures on the screen and no prints, I finally decided I would attempt to fix them myself. It is easy to shift the bit that couples onto the lens rangefinder lip. However it is sensitive and a little too much I was out by miles wow. Pictures are sharp now, I have checked it a couple more times just to make sure it hadn’t gone out from changing lenses and all cameras are keeping calibration.
Just to finish off, my “poor man’s leica” is Zorki 3M and Fed 3a with a Jupiter 3 f 1:1.5
Main thing is to calibrate the camera to the lens you are using.
Thank you for this post. I want a Summar too!
NickTrop
Veteran
Hi Ruben -
Your posts are always fun. Even when they leave me scratching my head sometimes. I'm not forsaking the three Yashicas I own (the GSN. Lynx 14, or CC). I shoot them alla time - especially the GSN. I haven't bought a camera in about a year! I couldn't stand it anymore!!! I broke down!
Actually, I get more "GAS" attacks from lenses than camera bodies. I bought the Summar because of pics like Raids. It seemed to have a unique "painterly" quality and a look I really like. I also buy cameras because they "give me something unique"...
- Lynx 14 only fixed-lens rangefinder with 1.4 lens
- CC only fixed-lens rangefinder with 35/1.8 lens
- Panasonic FZ1v2 (digital) - 12X optical zoom with 2.8 consistent throughout the zoom range, can hand-hold at equivalent of 400mm zoom in 35.
- GSN - unique low light metering capabilities, aperture priority capability
- Konica Auto S3 - outstanding 38mm lens "the best ever tested" according to Modern Photography (lives up to its billing...)
SOoooooo, just in today, sitting on my desk is my VG condition Summar and attached to it an absolutely Excellent ++ Zorki 4k. What a beautiful kit. I also found a 36mm slide on lens hood. I've loaded her up and snapped three frames (hey, I'm at work...)
Yeah to new photgraphic toys!
Your posts are always fun. Even when they leave me scratching my head sometimes. I'm not forsaking the three Yashicas I own (the GSN. Lynx 14, or CC). I shoot them alla time - especially the GSN. I haven't bought a camera in about a year! I couldn't stand it anymore!!! I broke down!
Actually, I get more "GAS" attacks from lenses than camera bodies. I bought the Summar because of pics like Raids. It seemed to have a unique "painterly" quality and a look I really like. I also buy cameras because they "give me something unique"...
- Lynx 14 only fixed-lens rangefinder with 1.4 lens
- CC only fixed-lens rangefinder with 35/1.8 lens
- Panasonic FZ1v2 (digital) - 12X optical zoom with 2.8 consistent throughout the zoom range, can hand-hold at equivalent of 400mm zoom in 35.
- GSN - unique low light metering capabilities, aperture priority capability
- Konica Auto S3 - outstanding 38mm lens "the best ever tested" according to Modern Photography (lives up to its billing...)
SOoooooo, just in today, sitting on my desk is my VG condition Summar and attached to it an absolutely Excellent ++ Zorki 4k. What a beautiful kit. I also found a 36mm slide on lens hood. I've loaded her up and snapped three frames (hey, I'm at work...)
Yeah to new photgraphic toys!
Spider67
Well-known
OK ....Leica...means for me BW......then some situations you see in everyday life but who contain that decisive moment.......all that also can be taken with 35 RC.
That would have been my answer.
It's interesting as the words nowadays used in German for "poor man's Leica" would be "Leica für Arme" ("Die Leica des armen Mannes" or Leica des kleinen Mannes" would sound rather antiquated and out of place -"hey we are in Austria/Germany there are no poor peiple here!" would be a reaction of using that version). But "Leica für Arme" has the undertone of being a knockoff, a wannabe of a Leica and therefore also a wannabe photog.
Strange how words shape opinions. Besides "Die Leica des kleinen Mannes" (Little man's - meaning of an average level of society - also implies for most of us a god given order where everyone should know his place and the humble worker lifts his hat before his factory's bookkeeper who just nods curtly in answer, and he lifts his hat to his boss who.......
That would have been my answer.
It's interesting as the words nowadays used in German for "poor man's Leica" would be "Leica für Arme" ("Die Leica des armen Mannes" or Leica des kleinen Mannes" would sound rather antiquated and out of place -"hey we are in Austria/Germany there are no poor peiple here!" would be a reaction of using that version). But "Leica für Arme" has the undertone of being a knockoff, a wannabe of a Leica and therefore also a wannabe photog.
Strange how words shape opinions. Besides "Die Leica des kleinen Mannes" (Little man's - meaning of an average level of society - also implies for most of us a god given order where everyone should know his place and the humble worker lifts his hat before his factory's bookkeeper who just nods curtly in answer, and he lifts his hat to his boss who.......
reagan
hey, they're only Zorkis
Congrats, Nick! Glad you're pleased. Look forward to your reviews here.NickTrop said:...just in today, sitting on my desk is my VG condition Summar and attached to it an absolutely Excellent ++ Zorki 4k. What a beautiful kit. I also found a 36mm slide on lens hood. I've loaded her up and snapped three frames (hey, I'm at work...) Yeah to new photgraphic toys!
Eric T
Well-known
To me, a poor man's Leica is an old LTM Leica (other than the IIIg). I bought a Leica IIIf and three Leica LTM lenses last year on ebay for $400. And I am pleased with their performance to date.
Eric
Eric
NickTrop
Veteran
First impressions:
Kit assembled - kit consists of:
1. Zorki 4K
2. Leitz Summar
3. A cheap 36A clip-on circular lens hood (that seems to do the job just fine, thankfully!
Camera -
The Zorki 4K sample I have is quite nice. The shutter speed number aren't faded as I feared. It's heavy with a nice feel and a bright rangefinder, though not as contrasty as I'm used to, it's still very usable. I do NOT like the way the camera functions after rewinding film. The shutter acted erratically after I rewound the first roll. I think I will forgo the last frame so I don't get that stuck-half-way shutter release. However, I shot the shutter a few times w/o film and it seemed to correct itself... weird.
But all together not a bad user.
The Lens
I think I love this lens - straight up. I think I got a very nice sample, virtually free of scratches and no haze that I can detect but it does have what appears to be a bubble or somthing(?) at the very very edge of the right side the lens that doesn't effect anything - whew!
I totally agree with this assessment of the lens by Alfred Bruell:
2/50 Summar:
It shows it's best results between f 3.2 and 6.3. In this range, it is comparably sharp, like my Kodak Retina Ia 3.5/50 mm Xenar from the 50ies. In this range, it is a "high contrast lens", but different than we use the phrase today. Here it means, that the lens shows clear colors but hardly shadow details. To give an example: When you look at a tree at dawn or sunset, you clearly see the colors of the bright parts, but the shadows are gone and almost black. That's what the lens does, even in bright daylight. Additionally, the unsharp areas are more unsharp than in a "usual" 50 mm, almost like from the 2/90 mm M Summicron. Both effects (suppression of shadow details and "increased" unsharpness) result in the most impressive 3D or pictoral effect I've ever seen from a 50 mm, incl Noctilux. The highlights are over-pronounced, which gives an additional impression of light in your pictures (like in impressionism). At f 2.0 the corners tend to be dark and the colors are almost gone. It is a warm to neutral lens.
http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/ll.htm
Even this is an old lens, and not the upper echelon of the Leicas... I kinda "get it" with the Leica mystique. This lens renders images like no other lens I own. I really blurs the OOF areas beautifully and seemingly at smaller apertures than other lenses I own. The highlights glow, and as stated it's hard to get shadow detail sometimes but no other lens I have has a 3D "pop" to match this one. My sample is reasonably sharp - sharper than I expected and certainly acceptable. Everything I shot was with a lens hood and there were no issues with flare at all.
This lens has a very unique and pleasing signature and is a different animal altogether from any other 50 I have used.
I just got my first roll back and am going on vaction tomorrow. I think I'll just bring my "Poor Man's Leica" set-up, along with my recently restored Iskra for MF. I will scan some pics and post them when I get back in a week.
Kit assembled - kit consists of:
1. Zorki 4K
2. Leitz Summar
3. A cheap 36A clip-on circular lens hood (that seems to do the job just fine, thankfully!
Camera -
The Zorki 4K sample I have is quite nice. The shutter speed number aren't faded as I feared. It's heavy with a nice feel and a bright rangefinder, though not as contrasty as I'm used to, it's still very usable. I do NOT like the way the camera functions after rewinding film. The shutter acted erratically after I rewound the first roll. I think I will forgo the last frame so I don't get that stuck-half-way shutter release. However, I shot the shutter a few times w/o film and it seemed to correct itself... weird.
But all together not a bad user.
The Lens
I think I love this lens - straight up. I think I got a very nice sample, virtually free of scratches and no haze that I can detect but it does have what appears to be a bubble or somthing(?) at the very very edge of the right side the lens that doesn't effect anything - whew!
I totally agree with this assessment of the lens by Alfred Bruell:
2/50 Summar:
It shows it's best results between f 3.2 and 6.3. In this range, it is comparably sharp, like my Kodak Retina Ia 3.5/50 mm Xenar from the 50ies. In this range, it is a "high contrast lens", but different than we use the phrase today. Here it means, that the lens shows clear colors but hardly shadow details. To give an example: When you look at a tree at dawn or sunset, you clearly see the colors of the bright parts, but the shadows are gone and almost black. That's what the lens does, even in bright daylight. Additionally, the unsharp areas are more unsharp than in a "usual" 50 mm, almost like from the 2/90 mm M Summicron. Both effects (suppression of shadow details and "increased" unsharpness) result in the most impressive 3D or pictoral effect I've ever seen from a 50 mm, incl Noctilux. The highlights are over-pronounced, which gives an additional impression of light in your pictures (like in impressionism). At f 2.0 the corners tend to be dark and the colors are almost gone. It is a warm to neutral lens.
http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/ll.htm
Even this is an old lens, and not the upper echelon of the Leicas... I kinda "get it" with the Leica mystique. This lens renders images like no other lens I own. I really blurs the OOF areas beautifully and seemingly at smaller apertures than other lenses I own. The highlights glow, and as stated it's hard to get shadow detail sometimes but no other lens I have has a 3D "pop" to match this one. My sample is reasonably sharp - sharper than I expected and certainly acceptable. Everything I shot was with a lens hood and there were no issues with flare at all.
This lens has a very unique and pleasing signature and is a different animal altogether from any other 50 I have used.
I just got my first roll back and am going on vaction tomorrow. I think I'll just bring my "Poor Man's Leica" set-up, along with my recently restored Iskra for MF. I will scan some pics and post them when I get back in a week.
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jbf
||||||
I dont know if you know this or not... but The erratic shutter you are getting is because most likely you have changed the shutter speeds before winding/cocking the shutter.
You should always wind the film crank before you ever try to change the shutter speeds. You can do serious damage to the shutter mechanism (and slow speed mechanism).
Even now I occasionally end up changing shutter speed by mistake before i wind the shutter but so far ive been ok...
but you have to be very careful.
You should always wind the film crank before you ever try to change the shutter speeds. You can do serious damage to the shutter mechanism (and slow speed mechanism).
Even now I occasionally end up changing shutter speed by mistake before i wind the shutter but so far ive been ok...
but you have to be very careful.
Iskra 2
Kodachrome Rules!
Nick, is your Summar adjusted for the FSU lens mount to film plane distance? According to Dante Stella that might be a problem when close focusing. Regards.
dragonx
Member
jbf said:I dont know if you know this or not... but The erratic shutter you are getting is because most likely you have changed the shutter speeds before winding/cocking the shutter.
You should always wind the film crank before you ever try to change the shutter speeds. You can do serious damage to the shutter mechanism (and slow speed mechanism).
why is that? what goes on inside the camera that causes this erratic phenomenon?
reagan
hey, they're only Zorkis
Sounds good Nick. I can't believe you're going to leave us hanging on the edge for a week. Where are you going for vacation; we can meet you there. 
Have a good time, enjoy the fam and gear, be safe.
Have a good time, enjoy the fam and gear, be safe.
NickTrop
Veteran
jbf said:I dont know if you know this or not... but The erratic shutter you are getting is because most likely you have changed the shutter speeds before winding/cocking the shutter.
You should always wind the film crank before you ever try to change the shutter speeds. You can do serious damage to the shutter mechanism (and slow speed mechanism).
Even now I occasionally end up changing shutter speed by mistake before i wind the shutter but so far ive been ok...
but you have to be very careful.
Thanks. I am acutely aware of this and was absolutely certain I did not. In fact, I check every time the shutter was cocked to make absolutely sure. The issue I encountered is when I reached the end of the roll and the crank "stuck" mid-way as it often does. The camera isn't broken, but - like I said, I think I'll forgo the last frame for the sake of the camera.
NickTrop
Veteran
Thanks CLVLZ4 : )
NickTrop
Veteran
Iskra 2 said:Nick, is your Summar adjusted for the FSU lens mount to film plane distance? According to Dante Stella that might be a problem when close focusing. Regards.
Seem so be fine. Pics in focus and sharp to my eyes. Thanks for the tip, though.
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