nightfly
Well-known
I disagree and don't think the terms social documentary or urban landscape add anything at all. Why throw out a term like street when generations of photographers and photography viewers have come to know what it means or at least to identify when they see it.
Happen to come across this quote in an article about Robert Frank from the NY Times magazine a few months back:
"Photography can reveal so much. It's the invasion of the privacy of people." Accordingly there was an element of tradecraft. "I felt like a detective or a spy. Yes! Often I had uncomfortable moments. Nobody gave me a hard time, because I had a talent for not being noticed."
I would say one of the greatest social documentarians of our time expressively didn't have that attitude. He shot as an outsider without forming any sort of relationship intentionally. The power of his photography was very much a product of his outsider looking in status and stealing images and invading privacy.
He had a lot of trouble getting traction especially here in the states because of the sometimes unflattering and all too revealing quality of his images.
This isn't to say that this is the only way to practice street photography but it certainly isn't invalid. I'm not sure how you can judge if you are "treating a subject as human" or if "you've formed a relationship".
Most of the street photographers who I admire, Frank, William Klein, Daido Moriyama I don't see as documenting social relationships primarily.
There are certainly scores of others who do aim to do this expressively that are also street photographers but "social documentary" isn't the aim of all street photographers.
Colin Corneau
Colin Corneau
This is a really good point. I certainly notice a very marked increase in surly, hostile or paranoid attitudes among people on the streets. Still no major issues, which goes to what you bring to the situation with your attitude...however, we live in a much more anti-social, alienated environment now. No doubt about it.
I can't say how many scenes I would otherwise have made a photograph from, but just don't bother because it's some bored drone, face down in their smartphone. Boring boring boring...and pointless.
As has been noted elsewhere, also - it's always amusing to have some mama bear give you a lecture on privacy law, and then proceed to put 500 pictures of their kid on Facebook...where it can easily be hacked and stolen. These are not rational attitudes we're dealing with
Out to Lunch
Ventor
One more reason to travel outside North America with a camera.
FalseDigital
BKK -> Tokyo
Times are always changing but I don't really believe that people are on the street less. Certain places have become gentrified and are more sterile than they used to be but there's still something worth shooting in arid environments. On the contrary, if you leave these areas and go to other places you'll find just as much mayhem and mystery as before.
Here's a photo I shot in Tokyo. When do you think it was taken?
Answer: About a month ago.
In terms of people getting angry, I've only been yelled at once in the past 5 years and have never been struck at. I've photographed on the street in Detroit, New York, Bangkok, and Tokyo. These days I've become less silent and willingly aim a wide lens point blank at a stranger if they have an interesting look to them.
Here's a photo I shot in Tokyo. When do you think it was taken?
Answer: About a month ago.
In terms of people getting angry, I've only been yelled at once in the past 5 years and have never been struck at. I've photographed on the street in Detroit, New York, Bangkok, and Tokyo. These days I've become less silent and willingly aim a wide lens point blank at a stranger if they have an interesting look to them.
I'm not sure this let's us know much... who was supposed to get angry and was this supposed to show us that people are still on the street?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Roger Hicks
Veteran
FalseDigital
BKK -> Tokyo
Haha, ok I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I should have mentioned who I was specifically addressing. The image with the boy on the street with the caption "This photograph will never be taken again"
I was trying to make an argument that things like that still happen all the time.
As far as my posted image, the fact that there are places left in this world that still have a timeless look to them and that there are still places left where people don't heave their heads buried in a mobile phone screen. That perhaps he only feels that way because he has limited himself to a certain place. I should have posted a different photo to make that clearer.
I was trying to make an argument that things like that still happen all the time.
As far as my posted image, the fact that there are places left in this world that still have a timeless look to them and that there are still places left where people don't heave their heads buried in a mobile phone screen. That perhaps he only feels that way because he has limited himself to a certain place. I should have posted a different photo to make that clearer.
KM-25
Well-known
Different world indeed, digital, internet, iPhones, Flickr, Facebook, photo enthusiast forum galleries, likes, thumbs up, child endangerment, identity theft, intellectual property, defamation of character, branding, TSA, DHS, ISIS, etc.
Can't honestly blame people for not wanting to become "Cecil the Lion" for someone's photo-ego, Facebook or Flickr feed. I love photographing people, it is my job to do that. So I make sure I always have a reason for doing it that goes well beyond my self interest like a book project or long term project with basis. I always have references and offer to make a print, get their approval of anything intended to be published, contact info for the publisher.
I have no problems with doing photos of people in public, largely because I have the backing of institutions like the one in the attachment.
For everyone else, those who do it for *fun*...for them selves...man, I don't know what to tell you, the world has changed, people / businesses are going to be increasingly resistant....can you blame them???
I sure can't.....the interest rate for "Freedom" will turn out to be much, MUCH higher than anyone would have thought...
There is no going back.
Can't honestly blame people for not wanting to become "Cecil the Lion" for someone's photo-ego, Facebook or Flickr feed. I love photographing people, it is my job to do that. So I make sure I always have a reason for doing it that goes well beyond my self interest like a book project or long term project with basis. I always have references and offer to make a print, get their approval of anything intended to be published, contact info for the publisher.
I have no problems with doing photos of people in public, largely because I have the backing of institutions like the one in the attachment.
For everyone else, those who do it for *fun*...for them selves...man, I don't know what to tell you, the world has changed, people / businesses are going to be increasingly resistant....can you blame them???
I sure can't.....the interest rate for "Freedom" will turn out to be much, MUCH higher than anyone would have thought...
There is no going back.
Attachments
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
Highlight 1: Who gives a toss about regional media?
Highlight 2: Yes -- and I can blame your self-important "I work for an American newspaper" world-picture even more.
Cheers,
R.
uhoh7
Veteran
i basically agree about the "I am here for NYT" snobbish attitude, but I must admit I'm the same way at a wedding when guests are crowding me with their cameras. "I'm the pro, let me work". That's my instinct, but unlike KM-25, I do not pretend to rationalize it.
It's all human nature. We are not rational, not even close. I think it's a wonder we can still photograph freely, because put to a vote, the right would probably go down. But what's really instructive, is the many testimonials here from shooters who really have no problem, move freely and shoot however they want. I think much of the sadness is that everything is a PITA when you get older. LOL
Everytime I get out of bed, I think: this did not used to be so hard!
f16sunshine
Moderator
There are far more important things in this world than being a proffesional photographer.... you do know that don't you?
Reading your posts over the years, you seem to believe you somehow live in some rarified air since you are a "Pro".
How can you of all people use the term "photo ego" ?
Hsg
who dares wins
Here's a photo I shot in Tokyo. When do you think it was taken?
Answer: About a month ago.
This a strong photo. The street lines and the lights are exquisite.
__jc
Well-known
I don't appreciate the implication. If you'd read and understood my thread I have had many occasions that I've moved on and said "screw it" and continued to photograph in the streets. I was bashed around the head in Cairo for taking a picture in a train station - that was 28 years ago. I've had a bayonet attached to an automatic weapon stuck in my nostril for photographing in Istanbul. This is not a chest-beating testerone-fuelled pissing contest for me.
But good luck to you.
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
But that's the thing... we DO change the world one interaction at a time!! If we, as individuals, let the paranoids facing us have their way, the problem just spreads. We EACH have a responsibility as citizens to stand up for the rights our country is founded on. We cannot wait for someone else to do it.
uhoh7
Veteran
Jamie do you really think you are going to change their minds in a confrontation?
Have you ever, I mean EVER, seen anyone change their mind in a political disscussion?
I've been in countless and never seen it happen.
It's my right to tell everyone on the street what I think about USA foreign policy. Is it also my duty to do so?
kdemas
Enjoy Life.
**important Notice**
**important Notice**
Unless you are a pro representing a major entity please do not bring your camera on the street, or to a major event for that mater. Use in your home is permitted (unless an accredited pro is present).
**important Notice**
Unless you are a pro representing a major entity please do not bring your camera on the street, or to a major event for that mater. Use in your home is permitted (unless an accredited pro is present).
phatnev
Well-known
No, it's not a chest beating thing at all, if that's what "made" a photographer all the guys that have died shooting would be the "best". It sounds like you have that same drive and passion for making photos that I do- I guess I'm curious as to why would you choose not to take a bollocking while out and about these days in order to get a photo if you endured all that? That's what doesn't make sense to me. Are you just over it?
lukitas
second hand noob
A strange story
A strange story
A Strange Story.
I'm a train conductor. The guy with the striped hat, who whistles when the train has to leave, closes the doors and punches tickets. Always have my camera with me, over my left shoulder, under my coat. The job comes first, of course, but often, I get a chance to take a picture. Doesn't take more than a second or so.
Yesterday, I tried to photograph three train drivers marching in goose-step, and missed the shot. One of them followed me, wanted to know the eternal 'Why?'. I tried to reassure him that he wasn't in the picture, that it was a failure, and I wouldn't show it, on my word of honour.
Today, they kept me back from work for half the day, I had to explain my taking of pictures to my 'immediate superior'. The guy had complained, and somebody who doesn't like me had compiled a 'dossier' about my photographic and professional missteps.
The guy making the complaint must be very scared having his picture taken, if he cannot accept my reassurances to the point of filing a complaint.
Then there is the person writing the dossier, who cited an event that happened a year ago : I tried to take her picture, she refused, I didn't take it.
Now she's using this to accuse me of malfeasance.
Some people have very strong feelings, not about pictures, but about the taking of them.
I just hope they won't forbid me to have my camera with me. A silly interdiction, Everybody in the firm has to have a phone, all of them have built in cameras.
Sorry for the rant.
Cheers!
A strange story
A Strange Story.
I'm a train conductor. The guy with the striped hat, who whistles when the train has to leave, closes the doors and punches tickets. Always have my camera with me, over my left shoulder, under my coat. The job comes first, of course, but often, I get a chance to take a picture. Doesn't take more than a second or so.
Yesterday, I tried to photograph three train drivers marching in goose-step, and missed the shot. One of them followed me, wanted to know the eternal 'Why?'. I tried to reassure him that he wasn't in the picture, that it was a failure, and I wouldn't show it, on my word of honour.
Today, they kept me back from work for half the day, I had to explain my taking of pictures to my 'immediate superior'. The guy had complained, and somebody who doesn't like me had compiled a 'dossier' about my photographic and professional missteps.
The guy making the complaint must be very scared having his picture taken, if he cannot accept my reassurances to the point of filing a complaint.
Then there is the person writing the dossier, who cited an event that happened a year ago : I tried to take her picture, she refused, I didn't take it.
Now she's using this to accuse me of malfeasance.
Some people have very strong feelings, not about pictures, but about the taking of them.
I just hope they won't forbid me to have my camera with me. A silly interdiction, Everybody in the firm has to have a phone, all of them have built in cameras.
Sorry for the rant.
Cheers!
__jc
Well-known
Did you read my post? No matter.
I'm 59, I have a wonderful family and life. The last few times I've been out street shooting I've been accused - either implicitly or explicitly - of being a "paedophile". The equation here seems to be: older guy with camera = paedophile. No matter that I'm pleasant, I engage, I do not hide what I'm doing or sneak around and I do NOT photograph children, scantily clad babes or various other things which are on my "leave it out" list. It is the observed increasing frequency of this response that leads me to my present position.
You, presumably, are young. You therefore can't perhaps understand what it means to be constantly labelled, in the course of doing something harmless and that you love - and have done without being hassled for many years - something disgusting which is the complete opposite of who you are and how you have lived your life. I have friends who have never had this happen to them, but they are either younger, female or both. I'm sure there are other men my age in my city who likewise never have a problem, but then again I highly doubt that it's anything about me in particular.
So as a result I not only don't enjoy it any more, it is something I have come to dislike. That's just me. When I was younger, yeah, sure, what's a smack on the head or a confrontation with overzealous soldiers other than a good story? Get abused or called a name? Who cares - sticks and stones, right? But at my time of life, being regularly accused of being a monster? Because I take pictures in the street? No thanks.