The world has changed Street Photography

[Hsg]

A Strange Story.

I'm a train conductor. The guy with the striped hat, who whistles when the train has to leave, closes the doors and punches tickets. Always have my camera with me, over my left shoulder, under my coat. The job comes first, of course, but often, I get a chance to take a picture. Doesn't take more than a second or so.

Yesterday, I tried to photograph three train drivers marching in goose-step, and missed the shot. One of them followed me, wanted to know the eternal 'Why?'. I tried to reassure him that he wasn't in the picture, that it was a failure, and I wouldn't show it, on my word of honour.

Today, they kept me back from work for half the day, I had to explain my taking of pictures to my 'immediate superior'. The guy had complained, and somebody who doesn't like me had compiled a 'dossier' about my photographic and professional missteps.

The guy making the complaint must be very scared having his picture taken, if he cannot accept my reassurances to the point of filing a complaint.
Then there is the person writing the dossier, who cited an event that happened a year ago : I tried to take her picture, she refused, I didn't take it.
Now she's using this to accuse me of malfeasance.

Some people have very strong feelings, not about pictures, but about the taking of them.

I just hope they won't forbid me to have my camera with me. A silly interdiction, Everybody in the firm has to have a phone, all of them have built in cameras.

Sorry for the rant.

Cheers!

You must put yourself in the shoes of your subjects.

One day I was pointing the camera at a postcard stand and a couple passing by thought that was strange, and it was strange, nobody takes photos of postcard stands, postcards are photos.

Of course they had never heard of Daido Moriyama and how he would take photos of photos in a newspaper and publish them in his books without saying anything that these are copies of copies.

Sometimes leave the camera and take photos by just looking.

 

[f16sunshine]

KM-25

You're promoting the problem in the worst way.
At it's core you are saying the right to take these images may only be owned.
Your so called "credentials" are from your employer... Not the public.
Those papers are not some sort of immunity rather a simple "license" to do business.
I can see why this thread and subject is a threat to you.

 

[kiss-o-matic]

KM-25

You're promoting the problem in the worst way.
At it's core you are saying the right to take these images may only be owned.
Your so called "credentials" are from your employer... Not the public.
Those papers are not some sort of immunity rather a simple "license" to do business.
I can see why this thread and subject is a threat to you.

like


a lot

 

[lamefrog]

Where?

I've lived in France for the last 13 years, and had visited often before that (or I'd not have moved here) and I have had just one confrontation in all that time, in Arles a few years ago.

Cheers,

R.

Paris, multiple incidents, usually involving me taking a shot and being subsequently harassed by people that may or may not have been in the frame. In one case, someone kicked my camera, in another a group of 6-8 kids forced me to remove the film after surrounding me . Violent incidents such as these are infrequent but more generally, I’m constantly approached and told that I can’t photograph this or photograph that . For cultural and legal reasons, France is a fairly hostile place for street photographers.

 

[airfrogusmc]

When shooting out in the street, I have noticed an increase in tension from 3 places.
1. Feel like Police in general are on edge when shooting.
2. Feel like random subjects are less accommodating and sometimes just not accommodating at all.
3. Feel like business owners are more restrictive about photographers.

I have been shooting "the street" for 40 years, so of course, I have seen this before. But it now it seems increased. Recent events over the last 15 years, seems to have changed everything. maybe I am wrong.

Yes I do agree things have changed but from a big city (Chicago) perspective I think it has gotten a lot easier in some ways.

First time I started shooting street was in the early 1980s when I started working on a project here in Chicago. I was photographing the old Maxwell Street area. Before that i was really into large format, zone system type work. That project ( The Miracle of Maxwell Street; cheat you fair) wound up being my final project in college.

In those days I was the only one on the street with a camera. I stuck out and was harassed a lot. Got into one situation that i am still surprised I got out of.

Today I can't walk a block and not see 3 or 4 cameras. With that many people shooting on the street many don't even pay any attention to me. I sometimes get a snarl or a hassle but it is a lot less common now that it was then.

I was just in the Fla Keys and had no problems at all on the street.

I do think it is just as challenging today to make interesting images on the street as it was then. In that regard I find it to be the same but many things are different. I find the challenge today as it was then is to somehow capture what is relevant today in an interesting way. To me and the way I work and see it's about showing the over saturation of advertising, modern technology and trying to include those elements in my work and do it in an way that makes it of these times.

I think because of all the people and cameras on the street in a city like Chicago or New York, one sticks out a lot less than someone with a camera did in the past and thus if you have camera you don't stand out like you once did and you don't get the attention you might have gotten in the past when a camera on the street was not so common.

Thats my 2 cents...Take it for what its worth.

 

[jsrockit]

I think because of all the people and cameras on the street in a city like Chicago or New York, one sticks out a lot less than someone with a camera did in the past and thus if you have camera you don't stand out like you once did and you don't get the attention you might have gotten in the past when a camera on the street was not so common.

Thats my 2 cents...Take it for what its worth.

I agree. I'm shocked at how little I do get harassed in NYC.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Paris, multiple incidents, usually involving me taking a shot and being subsequently harassed by people that may or may not have been in the frame. In one case, someone kicked my camera, in another a group of 6-8 kids forced me to remove the film after surrounding me . Violent incidents such as these are infrequent but more generally, I’m constantly approached and told that I can’t photograph this or photograph that . For cultural and legal reasons, France is a fairly hostile place for street photographers.

For cultural and legal reasons, Paris is NOT typical of France. See Post 26: "Very occasionally a problem in Paris. But not, as a rule, in the civilized parts of Europe."

How long have you lived in France? And, how good is your French?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Emile de Leon]

Photographers are considered the lowest of the low..way down there w/lawyers...in the general publics eye..essentially..pervs..
I remember getting dirty looks from a lady awhile ago...I was in a state park in the woods ..taking a photo of a stream there...w/my 7x17 on Ries tripod and Computar 270mm lens..taking the shot right next to my Subaru Forester..adjusting things..as we all do..she didn't have the balls to say anything...as I look like trouble..to most..but she made real sure to..give me a dirty look..
Then a bit later..at the shoreline with same camera..my wife w/me this time..all kinds of young adults wanted to see thru the GG..good vibes all around..
Then there was the time at the beach with the Veriwide.. 1 gal..definitely didn't like that cam at all..but didn't say anything...
Basically..the human mind is one crazy contraption..you never know what you are getting there..

 

[uhoh7]

Lukitas so sorry to hear about that. I carry a camera often while working. I know I am only one overreaction away from a problem.


Party on the Edge by unoh7, on Flickr

In general, I think we have the choice to fret or embrace the challenge, which is not going away.


Ready by unoh7, on Flickr

 

[photomoof]

I agree. I shocked at how little I do get harassed in NYC.

Only hard core, really smelly, "bums" on the subway have ever bothered me, but I usually ask. But they sometimes go ballistic when you walk by them.

 

[jsrockit]

But they sometimes go ballistic when you walk by them.

True... ... I was photographing something (inanimate object) way far away from a homeless man and he came over yelling that I took his photo. He was behind me. 🙂 Perhaps he thought it was a selfie.

 

[lukitas]

A strange story, part 2

A strange story, part 2

Thank you all for your support and kind words. Much appreciated.

Today, I got a phone call from my 'immediate superior'. I am not allowed to carry a camera on my shoulder, for 'security' - even when there is no way the strap could get snatched or hooked on anything, as it is under my coat.
I can put the camera in my bag, and take pictures at the end of the line, but not at the offices, and I have to ask permission every time. Oh and we are specifically asked not to put any valuables in our bags, which should be a valid reason to keep my camera on me, and not in the bag.

It amounts to an interdiction, without really being one. I'm being muzzled.

Recently, we were all invited to send in our best pictures taken at work, the winner would get a gopro and a selfiestick. The example of kids playing in a train was specifically cited as the sort of photo they would like to see.

I'm surprised that they haven't yet stumbled upon the fact that they can claim ownership of any photos I take during working hours.

I've contacted my union, who will support me, and as the whole thing seems like a hotchpotch of contradictory rulings, demands and injunctions, I have some hope of being vindicated, but I can see a long hard fight coming on.

Thank you all again.

to remain on topic : this is evidence of how it is getting harder to make photos in Europe too.

and here's a snap I took yesterday, on the job :

 

[KM-25]

KM-25

You're promoting the problem in the worst way.
At it's core you are saying the right to take these images may only be owned.
Your so called "credentials" are from your employer... Not the public.
Those papers are not some sort of immunity rather a simple "license" to do business.
I can see why this thread and subject is a threat to you.

Andy, with all due respect, you continue to make this about me when it is not about me. It is about what the OP wrote, that the world is changing street photography.

I'm not sure where you get I am part of some so called problem when I am active in academia in helping young photographers move the noble pursuit of photojournalism forward and holding workshops that inspire those who are passionate about photography.

And the whole idea you would say I feel threatened by what ever it is you feel I am threatened by....sir, that just plain makes you look bad.

Hope you start having a better day, mine is going great by the way.

 

[jsrockit]

Recently, we were all invited to send in our best pictures taken at work, the winner would get a gopro and a selfiestick. The example of kids playing in a train was specifically cited as the sort of photo they would like to see.

Wow, that is really strange that phone photography is encouraged but a regular camera is a big issue.

 

[photomoof]

... there is no way in hell I would engage in "Street" photography, my gut tells me it is just not right anymore, especially children.

Personally I only see one change in attitude since the early 70s, when I could make enough off of street photos to pay my rent, the US (and maybe elsewhere?) obsession with pedophila.

Hope you start having a better day, mine is going great by the way.

I'm sure you mean to be informative and helpful, but in all due respect, that's not how your posts read, honestly I don't know what you are driving at. 😕

 

[photomoof]

Wow, that is really strange that phone photography is encouraged but a regular camera is a big issue.

My thoughts exactly, seems like the company should be in or out of photography, not specific equipment phobic.

I could understand a employer banning photos during work, but that is clearly not their position.

 

[KM-25]

I'm sure you mean to be informative and helpful, but in all due respect, that's not how your posts read, honestly I don't know what you are driving at. 😕

I'm just telling a different side to this. It's pretty fresh too, if you want background though, you will have to PM me, I can only toss so much out there before it starts to have the potential to backfire.

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . and here's a snap I took yesterday, on the job : . . .

Dear Lukitas,

Great shot! Frances thinks so too.

Bonne courage.

Cheers,

R.

 

[KM-25]

Ok, since you used "fun" I'm going to assume that you are referring to me and my post. Honestly, I have no problem with your opinion, because it is only that... your opinion. It means nothing to me because I don't know you, I don't know your photography, and all of us, whether pro or not, make choices as to what we photograph (and what we have to take responsibility for).

I think it is a sad world where people assume the worst if you photograph strangers (even other people who photograph). Some of the best (my opinion) photographs ever made were made in this manner. Sure, it might be outdated to some, but I think documenting all times is important. Why should only one period of time be considered worth documenting? Why should only people with "credentials" only be allowed to do it? Does documentation always have to be cutting edge or an important event? Times change and so does everything with it. If we truly think that public photography is coming to an end, that makes it even more important to do it now.

It appears to me that you have a problem with people who don't photograph for a living or in the manner you deem correct. You **** all over the hobbyist on this site all of the time. That's sad.

I do agree that people can say no to being photographed and one should comply, but to assume everyone in public has a problem with being photographed is just silly. I have random people ask me to take their photo at times. Clearly not everyone is opposed to it. I do agree that children are off limits for the most part...but that is my opinion and my feeling. I also struggle with what is right and wrong to do while out on the street. However, I photograph with women and they seem to get away with photographing children in a manner that men can't.

None of my posts were aimed at you.

Good read though, sorry you think I crap all over the enthusiast crowd, because pro's use Flickr and Facebook too. NYC is one of the most photo friendly places I have ever been, but I don't live or work there, I live and work in a much smaller place albeit famous.

And I am not saying because I earn a living in photography that I am the street photographer pied piper, hardly. The changes the world has handed those who will point a camera have affected everyone.

I'll bow out now, really not much more to add.

 

[Colin Corneau]

Nobody "owns" photography. Not people with accreditation from regional newspapers; not people who are "active in academia in helping young photographers move the noble pursuit of photojournalism forward"....

Cheers,

R.

This, I agree with. I say this as a person who is a staff photographer at a (small) daily newspaper.

Humanity and society function at its best when we have the freest possible interaction of people and ideas. And that includes being able to make photographs in public places.

When I make such photographs, I do so as a person. I don't wave any credentials around -- although in the interest of providing ideas for positive strategies to handle negative people...I have printed up cards for myself, listing my name and my website where I often post my street photography.
On those very rare occasions when people question me, I explain in a very friendly and very straightforward way what I'm doing, and hand them a card...I've yet to have a major issue.