There is hope for the younger generation of photographers.

Younger people love the idea of film developing and darkroom printing. They have computers and hi-tech this and that rammed down their throats as soon as they leave the cradle, if not before. By the time they are teenagers something which requires THEM to do it rather than rely on a machine is a breath of fresh air(and fixer). It's just so sad the dumb schools and colleges ripped out most of the darkrooms. You'd think the teachers would have seen that but unfortunately not in most cases in the UK.

I was talking to a schools inspector (ofsted) recently. She had just done an inspection of a kindergarten at the UK HQ of a very big software company. She said it was a fantastic facility for young children. Her only recommendation was that they install computers for them to use because there were none. How sad is that? A computer company don't want their own kids having computers rammed into them at a very young age and the schools inspectors think they should.
Fact is that a very large percentage of people just aren't interested in computing and the massive learning curve you have to go through just to be moderately proficient with PC's. For them a PC is the devil. Why should they be force fed with it? It's no surprise to me that young people like real film and developing and printing just like many of us older kids do.
 
tlitody said:
Fact is that a very large percentage of people just aren't interested in computing and the massive learning curve you have to go through just to be moderately proficient with PC's. For them a PC is the devil. Why should they be force fed with it? It's no surprise to me that young people like real film and developing and printing just like many of us older kids do.
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I'm sure you can quantify this based on some study. I know some kids in our community and we talked about photo courses in school. None is film. All of then love computer and digital stuff. My very personal subjective estimation is, that there might be some interest for film in 2-5 out of 100 kids.
 
tlitody said:
Younger people love the idea of film developing and darkroom printing. They have computers and hi-tech this and that rammed down their throats as soon as they leave the cradle, if not before. By the time they are teenagers something which requires THEM to do it rather than rely on a machine is a breath of fresh air(and fixer). It's just so sad the dumb schools and colleges ripped out most of the darkrooms. You'd think the teachers would have seen that but unfortunately not in most cases in the UK.

I was talking to a schools inspector (ofsted) recently. She had just done an inspection of a kindergarten at the UK HQ of a very big software company. She said it was a fantastic facility for young children. Her only recommendation was that they install computers for them to use because there were none. How sad is that? A computer company don't want their own kids having computers rammed into them at a very young age and the schools inspectors think they should.
Fact is that a very large percentage of people just aren't interested in computing and the massive learning curve you have to go through just to be moderately proficient with PC's. For them a PC is the devil. Why should they be force fed with it? It's no surprise to me that young people like real film and developing and printing just like many of us older kids do.
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So you your a technophile then right =)
I think that the larning curve for IT is no different than the learning curve for darkroom work. In fact its easier for most people.
As for the 'very large percentage' I would love to see that as fact instead of an anecdote because tech is a part of everyday life and most people do not have any issues with it.
 
tom.w.bn said:
I'm sure you can quantify this based on some study. I know some kids in our community and we talked about photo courses in school. None is film. All of then love computer and digital stuff. My very personal subjective estimation is, that there might be some interest for film in 2-5 out of 100 kids.
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Sure I can. A mere 35 years working as software developer and analyst working with end users who hate the bl**dy things because they don't understand them or how they work. Working with client companies full of young people who have been brought up in the digital age and as soon as something doesn't work they are clueless as to how to fix it. They are nearly all completely disinterested in computers. People who hang out in photo forums tend to be at least moderately technically savvy. Just my opinion based on 35 years experience working in many companies as a consultant systems developer.
 
tlitody said:
Sure I can. A mere 35 years working as software developer and analyst working with end users who hate the bl**dy things because they don't understand them or how they work. Working with client companies full of young people who have been brought up in the digital age and as soon as something doesn't work they are clueless as to how to fix it. They are nearly all completely disinterested in computers. People who hang out in photo forums tend to be at least moderately technically savvy. Just my opinion based on 35 years experience working in many companies as a consultant systems developer.
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I agree that people have no interest in the mechanics, fully agree, but people are not familiar with the mechanics of the cars that take the to work either. Its frustrating for someone in the know but not abnormal. And the larning curve to be proficient as an end user is very mild.
For example, the learning curve for an end user of the internet is load up browser and type address. The learning curve to be proficient in the mechanics of BGP networks and peering and IOS configurations is a lifelong curve. Two opposite end of the spectrum.
 
tom.w.bn said:
I'm sure you can quantify this based on some study. I know some kids in our community and we talked about photo courses in school. None is film. All of then love computer and digital stuff. My very personal subjective estimation is, that there might be some interest for film in 2-5 out of 100 kids.
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And how many of those 100 kids have ever actually done any darkroom work? How would they know if they would prefer it or not. Sliced bread is always the best if that's all you have ever been fed.
 
I'm 17 and shoot film. I feel like photography for my generation has been degraded to taking a ton of pictures on a digital point and shoot and filling up an 8gb memory card in one night so they can be filtered through and posted on facebook the next day. I hate that kids don't care about how they can take good pictures by just learning a few basics of photography. For me, film pushes me to compose aesthetically pleasing pictures. And the reason why younger people like myself purchase old film cameras is simply because we cant afford a brand new bessa R4 or leica M7.
Also FWIW I hate the Beatles.
 
There are two types of photographers. The first are the 'photographers', the one's that have a keen eye or a desire to get out there and take shots, be them arty, well composed, well thought out or just to see what they can get. The second type of photographer is the happy snappy family type that only uses a camera for events like holidays, birthdays, weddings etc. The unfortunate thing is that these outnumber the first type by a million to one. Digital is the perfect format for the masses. They live and breath it and the photographic outlets encourage them to live and breath it. Moving the masses from film to digital was the first stage. The second stage was to make sure they all 'hear' that the technology has improved, the pixel count is higher and spending more money will give you better results. It's a money making machine that the manufacturers are thriving on. There's no stopping it.

This said it all for me today. I went in to Costco to drop a film off for developing. I ask the guy a question and it goes something like this:
"You getting much film in here these days?"
"No, not a lot. Mainly digital because it's so much better."
I said "That's subjective isn't it?"
He looked at me confused. "No, you can do so much more with it and the pictures are far better quality than anything a film camera can do".
So I pointed out "But a decent film camera will match anything a digital camera can do for much less money. I have an older camera(Hexar AF) that cost me £300 and it will wipe the floor with an older digital camera that would cost £300 today. It will even wipe the floor with a brand new £300 digital camera".
So he comes back with "Well if you see some of the digital pictures we blow up big here, they are far better than anything a film camera would give at the same size. Plus you can go into the settings and do all sorts of things in the menu and apply special effects and manipulate the images in software on a pc".

I just looked at him and said "I'll be back in an hour for my pictures".

It's this mentality that we are dealing with. It's not a poor mentality, just a subjective one that has been harvested from VERY good marketing and driving public awareness to the pros of digital photgraphy. It suites the manufacturers that the public think this way and it suites the photographic outlets too. After all, it's raking in pots of gold from the consumers out there.

Paul
 
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