Thinking about a M2. Cons/Pros?

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

Oops! Duplicate post!

 

[nobbylon]

Re viewfinder seperation, in all the time i've been on this forum, 6 years, i've never heard of any M finder seperate. Plenty of scare mongering but no action.
Regarding the M4, I always thought the prisms were balsam glued. I've certainly seen some with the trademark beading on the seams.

 

[rlouzan]

Compare several M2 bodies, side by side, and choose the one with the most contrasty rf patch and no dings/dents on the frame counter side.

 

[Jaime M]

My first and only Leica. I bought it four years ago.
I use it with an Elmar just like the drawing of the manual.

 

[maddoc]

Re viewfinder seperation, in all the time i've been on this forum, 6 years, i've never heard of any M finder seperate. Plenty of scare mongering but no action.
Regarding the M4, I always thought the prisms were balsam glued. I've certainly seen some with the trademark beading on the seams.

Earlier M4s had balsam-cemented prisms and later ones synthetic glue applied. If memory serves me right, they can be distinguished by the shape of the baffle behind the VF eyepiece, one is rectangular and the other barrel-shaped (I forgot which one is which but there was a long thread about this on photo.net)

 

[nobbylon]

Earlier M4s had balsam-cemented prisms and later ones synthetic glue applied. If memory serves me right, they can be distinguished by the shape of the baffle behind the VF eyepiece, one is rectangular and the other barrel-shaped (I forgot which one is which but there was a long thread about this on photo.net)

Thanks Gabor.

 

[ferider]

Re viewfinder seperation, in all the time i've been on this forum, 6 years, i've never heard of any M finder seperate. Plenty of scare mongering but no action.

It happens though: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89167

On the good side, Youxin Ye does reglue prisms now.

 

[shadowfox]

Is there any of the accolades here for M2 that cannot be applied to an M4-P ?
I do like the advance lever style on the M2/M3.

 

[nobbylon]

It happens though: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89167

On the good side, Youxin Ye does reglue prisms now.

thx Ferider, 1st report I've seen of a seperated finder!
j

 

[nobbylon]

John - so good to read you here!

OP -- I have owned numerous Ms and I don't think there is a better M than the M2 for all-round use. The only downside ... I just can't think of anything that I'd consider lame about a good M2, whereas I can think of the lameness of the red-haze and blinking arrows/dots in lowlight one can all-too-easily experience while trying to work with a properly and fully functioning modern metered MP. Its strength is its simplicity; it stays out of your way and lets you slow down, think and compose with the most useful FLs. Just take some care in the selection and you'll know why so many of us rave about the M2 when you start using it. BTW, there is no better combination for a M2 than a M3...as Roland already stated...

Hi Thomas, hows that paint holding up? Have you used it much? I use my M2 every now and then but it hasn't worn at all in 2 years or so!
best regards john

 

[kingqueenknave]

John - so good to read you here!

OP -- I have owned numerous Ms and I don't think there is a better M than the M2 for all-round use. The only downside ... I just can't think of anything that I'd consider lame about a good M2, whereas I can think of the lameness of the red-haze and blinking arrows/dots in lowlight one can all-too-easily experience while trying to work with a properly and fully functioning modern metered MP. Its strength is its simplicity; it stays out of your way and lets you slow down, think and compose with the most useful FLs. Just take some care in the selection and you'll know why so many of us rave about the M2 when you start using it. BTW, there is no better combination for a M2 than a M3...as Roland already stated...

There's a little circular cover on the front of the MP. It will unscrew if you turn it counter clockwise. Once you have unscrewed it all the way, turn it over, top down in the palm of your hand. You'll now see what appears to be a battery. Guess what? It is. Remove the battery and screw the circular cover back into the MP body. Note: you must do this in a clockwise motion. Problem solved! No more blinking lights.

Just praise the M2 without slamming the MP dude. Good grief.

 

[nobbylon]

There's a little circular cover on the front of the MP. It will unscrew if you turn it counter clockwise. Once you have unscrewed it all the way, turn it over, top down in the palm of your hand. You'll now see what appears to be a battery. Guess what? It is. Remove the battery and screw the circular cover back into the MP body. Note: you must do this in a clockwise motion. Problem solved! No more blinking lights.

Just praise the M2 without slamming the MP dude. Good grief.

didn't you kick off the other day in defence of MP's?

"Football is not just a matter of life and death: it's much more important than that" - Bill Shankly

 

[stratcat]

The M2 is a beautiful timeless camera, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. The only disadvantage I could mention is that I wear glasses and I have a bit of a hardtime seeing the complete 35mm frame. Yet considering that I used to shoot 35mm using the whole viewfinder in my M3, or the frameline clutter in my Canon P's viewfinder, this is a somewhat moot point.


Shooting a clean and lubricated classic Leica is simply a joy; I've had the fortune of shooting with a variety of Russian LTM cameras, Canon LTM cameras, leaf shutter Japanese rangefinders, SLR's, medium format folders. I enjoy using all of them a lot but the very first time I held an M3 to my eye and pressed the shutter release I immediately understood.

Enjoy your M2 and shoot the living daylights out of it!

 

[Vince Lupo]

Cons: no meter, few winder options (Tom A makes a nice rapidwinder, but that's it).

Ben

Actually, you can adapt an M winder to an M2, if you're willing to have the modification done.

Great cameras -- probably more versatile than the M3, no frills (unless you consider a self-timer a frill), and really keeps to the essentials of the 35-50-90 framelines. Find a good one, get a CLA done, and you're all set.

 

[kingqueenknave]

didn't you kick off the other day in defence of MP's?

"Football is not just a matter of life and death: it's much more important than that" - Bill Shankly

And weren't you slamming them? BP paint too?

I already praised the M2 in this thread without introducing another Leica body to it. I've owned 4. Great cameras! I just don't get people who have to dismiss what others own to apparently feel good about the things they own. It's strange, and sad.

 

[Harry Lime]

I keep seeing this claim but in 45 years I've never come across any old camera with these symptoms. 🙄

You can't be serious?

All of my older M and LTM bodies, Rollei, Hasselblad and even my Nikons needed an overhaul. The difference in operation smoothness and shutter accuracy was like day and night.

Lubricants degrade over time, that's just a fact. We are talking about decades here, not a few years. M2's were made in the late 50's and 60's. That's over a half a century ago. You don't think that there has been some degradation of the materials in that time?

Despite the Germans being technuts, they continued to use natural lubricants, long after everyone else switched to synthetics. This makes even less sense since they were among the early adapters during the war, when their natural supplies were cut off.

Natural lubricants breakdown a lot sooner than synthetics, and even those are not immune to the ravages of time.

Ask any technician like DAG or Sherry and they'll tell you that depending on usage and the operating environment a camera should be overhauled roughly every 10 years.

There is an awful lot of macho chestbeating that goes on among some photographers about how their Nikon/Leica/whatever hasn't been serviced since it left that factory during the Vietnam War era and still runs like a fine swiss watch, even though it's been run over by a tank and had drinks spilled on by woman of ill repute. It's BS. On the inside those cameras are a horror show. Once the lubricants breakdown they can start to corrode the internals and everything is running dry, which causes parts to wear out faster. All that grit and dirt that's accumulated over the years acts as a nice abrasive grinding on the parts. A camera in that condition is not going to last another few decades.

Respect your tools gentlemen and give them the service they need and deserve. It's not like you can just walk down the street to your local store and buy yourself another new M2 or M4. There are only so many of them left and once they are gone, they will be gone for good.

 

[Harry Lime]

Re viewfinder seperation, in all the time i've been on this forum, 6 years, i've never heard of any M finder seperate. Plenty of scare mongering but no action.
Regarding the M4, I always thought the prisms were balsam glued. I've certainly seen some with the trademark beading on the seams.

There have been several posts over the years on RFF with this problem. One of them quite recently. It's not a daily occurrence, but it does happen. Personally I have never heard of an M4 having this problem, but there have been several M2 and M3 bodies with this problem. On the risk of starting another sh*t storm, I'm going to say that I have noticed this more often with M3 bodies.

My M2 has been in my bag almost every day for the past 10 years. It's taken a few good shots over the years, but so far all is well. I don't think Tom A. has ever had this happen and he's been at this a lot, lot longer than I have.

Over at the L-Camera forum there is someone right now with an M6 showing separation. That may be the first or second M6 I have ever heard of doing that.

It happens and probably will happen more often as these cameras get older and the materials degrade.

 

[nobbylon]

And weren't you slamming them? BP paint too?

I already praised the M2 in this thread without introducing another Leica body to it. I've owned 4. Great cameras! I just don't get people who have to dismiss what others own to apparently feel good about the things they own. It's strange, and sad.

I'm sorry, I missed the part where someone was dismissing to feel better about things they own. Are you sure you are not being a little over defensive and presumptious about people. Maybe they just prefer something different to you? Maybe you like M2's as well as MP's? There is definately nothing sad about it. Just healthy debate and banter!
j

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

You can't be serious?

I'm serious. In 45 years and more than a hundred cameras, I've only come across one second hand camera, which needed a service on receipt and that was a Rolleiflex from a dealer.

If your experience is different, you have my sympathy but not necessarily my belief.

 

[ottluuk]

Is there any of the accolades here for M2 that cannot be applied to an M4-P ?
I do like the advance lever style on the M2/M3.

Not available on the M4-P: one-at-a-time frame lines, old style build & feel (incl. brass gearing), old style finder optics (resistant to patch flare), self timer. No earth-shattering differences, though, just details. Oh, and an M2 is usually cheaper. M2 makes good sense, IMO. Good luck to the OP.