Melvin
Flim Forever!
For pure Leica cameraness, the M2. But for ease of use and fun, the M5. Being able to spot meter with an M and simultaneously dial the shutter speed is really cool.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Frank,
Why isn't a Bessa worth repairing?
I would repair any of mine if one day it's necessary... The reason for me is that I love them for their design and weight... I don't think the techs repairing Bessas for cameraquest in L.A. are worthless...
Cheers,
Juan
Why isn't a Bessa worth repairing?
I would repair any of mine if one day it's necessary... The reason for me is that I love them for their design and weight... I don't think the techs repairing Bessas for cameraquest in L.A. are worthless...
Cheers,
Juan
Melvin
Flim Forever!
They last, though! I am happily using a Leica II made in 1932, that was well used before I got it. Granted, it needed a tune up. The other thing is that a lot of previous Leica owners didn't seem to use them much, or babied them, so there's still a good supply. It's our duty to try and wear them out!
maggieo
More Deadly
I love my M4-P and it's as smooth as my M2. I think they're both great cameras, but if you've got or want a 28mm, and a black body, you gotta go for the M4-P! I put a Jupiter-8 on mine and it is a fantastic combo!
I got the body for $600 and the lens for $30 and both are flawless in operation. Here's a recent shot from that combo:
You can click through to bigger versions of both.
I got the body for $600 and the lens for $30 and both are flawless in operation. Here's a recent shot from that combo:
You can click through to bigger versions of both.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
I don't prefer an R3M because old Leicas can't be brought to life again every x years, but because R3M is a more complete and visually comfortable tool. And new.
I don't prefer an R4M because it's younger than older Leicas, but because no Leica camera can do what an R4M can.
There's nothing an old Leica can do and an R3M can't. And there are things Bessas can do but Leicas can't. That's why Bessas were designed, and that's why they've been a huge success!
That, and their great construction, at least their M models... (I have never handled the older LTM models)
Cheers,
Juan
I don't prefer an R4M because it's younger than older Leicas, but because no Leica camera can do what an R4M can.
There's nothing an old Leica can do and an R3M can't. And there are things Bessas can do but Leicas can't. That's why Bessas were designed, and that's why they've been a huge success!
That, and their great construction, at least their M models... (I have never handled the older LTM models)
Cheers,
Juan
aizan
Veteran
a bessa can't scratch the "leica itch," though. to be honest, some leicas may not scratch the itch either. a meterless beater would have me itching for a new bessa or zeiss ikon any day of the week!
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
One last thought: I have absolutely nothing against old or new Leicas...
Options from Leica that I consider in the same range of Bessa R3M/A and Bessa R4M/A, are Leica M6 and Leica M7.
Cheers,
Juan
Options from Leica that I consider in the same range of Bessa R3M/A and Bessa R4M/A, are Leica M6 and Leica M7.
Cheers,
Juan
parsec1
parsec1
Dropped my M4P in a river up in Kashmir a year or so back. Dried it off on the radiator overnight in the 'hotel' room where the Journalist, myself and most of the mozzies in Asia were 'residing'.
The M4P came of best 'big time' and I carried on using it (along with a couple of Nikon D300s which of course would not have survived ) for three weeks until we got back to 'civilization' and I had it CLA'd. The 'Tech' said I needn't have bothered.
Tim Gray
Well-known
I'd get an M6 or an Ikon with a Zeiss ZM 50/2. Great setup and you should be able to find it used in your price range. All the frames you need and an internal meter.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
I'll traduce to avoid misinterpretations:
You could find lots of problems because of age, some of them very hard or even impossible to fix.
Take a good look at a camera's strengths as a tool and nothing more.
For what you get with Bessas and Ikon, in Leica you should pick M6 or M7.
Cheers,
Juan
bob338
Well-known
that's a silly comparison, there were hundreds of thousands more leicas produced than bessas. in the future i think voigtlander cameras will be what these niche rangefinders(olympus, yashica, konica, etc.) are now; curiosities that have their devotees, but are not common at all, and probably not serviceable.
leica has a proven track record of building cameras that work for a long time. do you really think a bessa R from the initial run will be around in 60 years? i don't, but there are countless M3s from the 50s still working.
this seems like a cheap shot to me. i think ALL of us want to own the nicest camera we can afford, and there is nothing wrong with wanting a leica. does someone who buys a 2011 porsche instead of a 2011 hyundai just have an interest in the 'brand?' do you think most hyundai owners wished they were porsche owners? i do.
to the OP...if i were you i would buy the M2 in the classifieds right now, get a decent 50 summicron or summilux with the remaining money and be done with it. until you want another lens that is. and you will want another lens...
bob
Creagerj
Incidental Artist
Exactly, if I wanted a bessa I would have bought one any time. I want a Leica, always have. I have a Canon L-1, and it is a great camera, even thought it is a bit used, but it doesn't scratch the itch. I don't need metering though, so that isn't an issue.
mathomas
Well-known
I got my M2 for $500 at a local shop. No CLA needed (yet). I can heartily recommend one, except as others have said, finding a black on will be very expensive. So, M4P is my second recommendation. Finding one cheap is not easy, in my experience.
Creagerj
Incidental Artist
This is kind of a cheap shot. I have the photographic tools that I require, a Nikon DSLR and an old Nikon SLR, those are tools, they can do far more than any RF period. Its just like how my chevy K10 is a tool, its a truck, it runs on diesel, its slow, but it is reliable and unstoppable. Since I'm all set on tools, I want something else, something for myself, a sports car if you will. I want a tool that inspires as well as accomplishes.
Additionally, I think it is unfair to say I am only interested in the brand since I am willing to look at non Leica lenses, in fact its probably the rout I'll go.
Instantclassic
Hans
Good advise is a good thing. I just want you to find out for yourself by using the cameras you lust for. This is going to take time and effort. You will eventually come up with strong feelings for the way you photograph. No RFF questioning shortcuts will ever help you. I think you will run in the wheel of buying-selling-trading for a while or forever. Where you start is less important.
Joe, I think your modest budget has inspired non-Leica suggestions; makes it a bit tough to come up with a black M, usually more expensive than chrome. And a good lens. I also think "scratching the Leica itch" is more valid for some than for others. It's real for me.
As you may know, when I was 26 I got a 10-year-old M body and a Summicron. No more excuses; if my pics weren't up to snuff there was no blaming the gear. And it felt so nice to use... the smooth film wind and the soft snick of the shutter... I appreciate quality and will sacrifice and save to get it. Having the Leica satisfied the itch and I was pleased enough with other gear too; I could break out the Leica any time.
You've used enough gear to know what you like, I think; it's just getting down to specific lens/body model variations. Just takes a little research... Have you tried looking over CameraQuest's Leica articles? Lots of good info here... http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm
As you may know, when I was 26 I got a 10-year-old M body and a Summicron. No more excuses; if my pics weren't up to snuff there was no blaming the gear. And it felt so nice to use... the smooth film wind and the soft snick of the shutter... I appreciate quality and will sacrifice and save to get it. Having the Leica satisfied the itch and I was pleased enough with other gear too; I could break out the Leica any time.
You've used enough gear to know what you like, I think; it's just getting down to specific lens/body model variations. Just takes a little research... Have you tried looking over CameraQuest's Leica articles? Lots of good info here... http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm
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Creagerj
Incidental Artist
You're probably right. I think I already have my mind made up on the body.
Creagerj
Incidental Artist
As always good advice from Doug. I think I've answered my own question at this point. I have great gear as it is, and I don't think a leica will make my pictures better, I'm pretty happy with them now in terms of quality, but the Leica itch needs to be scratched. I think the M4-P will manage that. This is kind of a graduation present to myself I guess.
You're right, my budget is pretty modest, but I don't think it is too modest for a user body and a used 50mm.
andreios
Well-known
For 50mm leica you can try a collapsible summicron. Some love the, some hate them - they go for low prices and "draw" very nicely... However - a chrome lens wouldn't look much good on black body..
Creagerj
Incidental Artist
I'm not opposed to chrome on black, in fact I think it looks pretty sharp. It is no different than a black lens on a chrome body. In a way its quite complementary. People put chrome bumpers and chrome exhaust on black cars, why not a chrome lens on a black camera?
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