Steve_F
Well-known
Hi all,
Last year I bought myself a Leica M6. As a long time RZ67 user I'm beginning to wish I'd bought a 7II instead of the Leica. I love the RF now and just can't let go of the 6x7 neg. The RZ has been mainly used for portraits, but also general street stuff. I'd be reluctant to let it go as I still want to do more b&w portraits and it isn't worth 'jack' now.
Selling the Leica would enable me to get a 7II and 65 or 80. Anybody else done this? Presumably with no regrets.
I'm going to have a look at a 7II at 'Focus - NEC' this weekend (assuming JP Distribution bring one), and will probably hire one from Calumet in London for the day and do some street photography. Give it a whirl.
How accurate are the framelines, I've read differing comments, but know from experience with the RZ that those negs still allow for selective enlargement due to their size.
Steve.
Last year I bought myself a Leica M6. As a long time RZ67 user I'm beginning to wish I'd bought a 7II instead of the Leica. I love the RF now and just can't let go of the 6x7 neg. The RZ has been mainly used for portraits, but also general street stuff. I'd be reluctant to let it go as I still want to do more b&w portraits and it isn't worth 'jack' now.
Selling the Leica would enable me to get a 7II and 65 or 80. Anybody else done this? Presumably with no regrets.
I'm going to have a look at a 7II at 'Focus - NEC' this weekend (assuming JP Distribution bring one), and will probably hire one from Calumet in London for the day and do some street photography. Give it a whirl.
How accurate are the framelines, I've read differing comments, but know from experience with the RZ that those negs still allow for selective enlargement due to their size.
Steve.
SimonSawSunlight
Simon Fabel
you have an M6. I haven't really tried the Mamiya, but if you've been ok with the M6's I can't imagine you won't be with the Mamiya's framelines. 
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
If you have been using the RZ67 for 'general street stuff' - obviously the size/weight of a 711 will not bother you!
. So hiring one first is probably the best way to go, but remember that in the street you will be changing film 'every ten minutes' with one. I would be considering also - how big - do you need to enlarge regularly?.Dave.
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
Do it.
You will not regret it.
I have a 7, use it far more often than my M6, and generally prefer everything about it except the shutter release and the long throw of the wind lever (one you can't avoid, the other... is a plastic / electronic camera).
I do use an external meter (the CV shoe mounted meter), but maybe the meter in the 7II is better than the one in the 7.
You will not regret it.
I have a 7, use it far more often than my M6, and generally prefer everything about it except the shutter release and the long throw of the wind lever (one you can't avoid, the other... is a plastic / electronic camera).
I do use an external meter (the CV shoe mounted meter), but maybe the meter in the 7II is better than the one in the 7.
Popum
Member
I made the switch three weeks ago. Will be selling the M6 TTL .58 shortly. I've now shot three test rolls with the 7ii 80mm and the results far exceed what I can produce with the M6. Not because there is anything wrong with the Leica, its just that the Mamiya lenses are in the same class as the Leica's but the negative is so much larger.
The only thing I'm trying to come to terms with is the meter. With the 80mm it is really a spot meter and I need to learn how to get consistent results with it. If anyone has some suggestions in tis regard I'd appreciate it.
Mike
The only thing I'm trying to come to terms with is the meter. With the 80mm it is really a spot meter and I need to learn how to get consistent results with it. If anyone has some suggestions in tis regard I'd appreciate it.
Mike
sahe69
Well-known
If you think you can live with the lower speed of the Mamiya 7/7II lenses then by all means do it. While the camera larger of course than the M6, it's not really that bad. About the size of a prosumer DSLR, e.g,. D700.
In my opinion also the framelines accuracy should be no problem if you're used to the M6. After all it is a rangefinder and not an SLR.
Hiring one is a very good idea to get a proper feeling.
In my opinion also the framelines accuracy should be no problem if you're used to the M6. After all it is a rangefinder and not an SLR.
Hiring one is a very good idea to get a proper feeling.
craygc
Well-known
I have both, a couple of Leicas and a couple of Mamiya 7II's (with the 65mm & 43mm). I also know its horses for courses but personally, I couldnt give up the small format Leica for medium format only. For me, 80% of what I shoot requires more agility and physical speed than the Mamiya allows for; and for the work/time involved (for me) in post processing 4000 dpi 6x7, I really think whether MF even makes sense for the shot.
Nothing more than just another view...
Nothing more than just another view...
jbielikowski
Jan Bielikowski
I've sold my RB67 to afford Leica and now I'm thinking how to go back to the MF. The funny thing is that I was using both of them for same thing- street photo. Hopefully I have some slr stuff I can sell to afford i.e. Fuji GW690. No matter what size you make prints, all of them are better than from 135.
chasfreeland
Established
Like craygc, I also have both Leica Ms and Mamiya 7ii camera systems. If you like travel photography, you might want to take several important differences between these two camera systems into consideration. Right now, I'm preparing for a trip requiring airliner travel and I'm thinking which system I would like to take with me. I love the Mamiya cameras and the 6x7 format, especially for the hand-printed black and white 16x20" prints the Mamiya negs are capable of producing. The Mamiya 7ii is a joy to use; I've never had any problems with its framelines or with its metering system. But, from my point of view, nothing beats the feel of the Leica Ms. I get good 11x14" black and white prints, or lovely slides, from them, plus there are 35 shots or so to a roll, vs. only 10 for the 120 Mamiya cameras, so one doesn't have to change film so often. I usually carry two cameras when I travel so as to avoid having to change lenses. A couple of Mamiyas is a lot bulkier than two Leica Ms, but not that much heavier (for me). WHen travelling, 120 film rolls are also bulkier to carry than 35mm rolls. So, the Mamiyas are reserved for trips where landscape and architectural photography are planned, and the Leicas will be for destinations where I'll likely be doing more street photography. As you decide, you should take into account what kinds of photography you enjoy the most and how you intend to use this equipment.
Let us know what you decided to do.
Let us know what you decided to do.
Mark A. Fisher
Well-known
I have taken great interest in reading this thread, since I recently ordered a new 7II with a 43mm lens. I think I'm going to like that huge negative, and I have always loved shooting with wide angle lenses, so the 43 should work well for me (I hope) I started a long time ago with a used rangefinder, moved on to 35mm Canon SLRs, then in to the Nikon line of 35mm, on to some MF stuff, and now am hoping this new acquisition will be a nice addition to my way of working. I've read lots of stuff about the pros and cons of the 7II as a street camera (where I hope to use mine) as well as a landscape camera, which piqued my interest in trying my hand at that subject matter. My greatest problem now is an increasing impatience as I await the arrival of the new gear at my local shop.
If I get any decent results I'll try to post some here - if the camera ever comes in!
Mark
If I get any decent results I'll try to post some here - if the camera ever comes in!
Mark
sper
Well-known
Why sell the M6? Get a used Mamiya 7 with an 80mm for around 1600 bucks. The advantages of the 7ii do not warrent an extra thousand dollars...unless you're really into double exposures...I just feel like it would be difficult to completely go without a 35mm rangefinder system, but thats me.
As for the meter concerns, it's true, it's unreliable, or at least I've had trouble with it. The build and design of the camera does not have the elegance of a Leica or even a Voigtlander 35mm rangefinder, but the image quality is worth the dissadvantages. That camera makes the best 6x7 negatives I've seen.
As for the meter concerns, it's true, it's unreliable, or at least I've had trouble with it. The build and design of the camera does not have the elegance of a Leica or even a Voigtlander 35mm rangefinder, but the image quality is worth the dissadvantages. That camera makes the best 6x7 negatives I've seen.
dazedgonebye
Veteran
I shopped till I got my Mamiya 7, 80mm and 43mm lenses for under $2k total.
Great kit.
I can't compare them to Leica, but I can say I find them almost as physically practical as my R3A kit and you have to love the negative.
Great kit.
I can't compare them to Leica, but I can say I find them almost as physically practical as my R3A kit and you have to love the negative.
bwcolor
Veteran
I use to use the M7 a good bit for travel and now mostly use a M7II when larger neg is needed. I've tried to use the Mamiya in low light with Delta 3200 @ EI 1600, but the depth of field and lens speed make this a bit tricky. The camera is hand holdable to rather slow shutter speeds. The finder is brighter and I think a better one than the Leica.. limited experience..M3,M4,M6TTL.. I think that I like the Ikon the best. I've never had a problem with the meter, but it is somewhat center weighted..there is a recent post elsewhere on this.
In a few hours I head out to Yosemite where I will use the M7II/65mm with Ektar 100 and M4(50mm), Voigtlander R4A(35mm & 21mm). I'm using Acros @EI 32 in the 35mm cameras and Sekonic incident/spot meter. I could have taken extra Mamiya lenses and/or the second body, but I don't want but a small bag and a camera around the neck. The M7 is small for a medium format camera, but it is not small.
In a few hours I head out to Yosemite where I will use the M7II/65mm with Ektar 100 and M4(50mm), Voigtlander R4A(35mm & 21mm). I'm using Acros @EI 32 in the 35mm cameras and Sekonic incident/spot meter. I could have taken extra Mamiya lenses and/or the second body, but I don't want but a small bag and a camera around the neck. The M7 is small for a medium format camera, but it is not small.
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
It is my travel camera, with 65 mm lens (and 150 in the bag, maybe, if I take it). It is smaller and lighter than my DSLR, and the pictures are superb.
Finder
Veteran
I love the modern Mamiya rangefinders--I use Mamiya 6s. I have 35mm stuff, but I really never use it--I just keep them for fun. I am quite happy to work within the limitations of the equipment. I do use a handheld meter as I find it faster to shot with--just set the exposure and shoot away. It is a great documentary camera.
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
Normally, I carry this on the strap on my shoulder. Extra film in pocket. With the lens on, this camera is "inconvenient" to pack. The 80mm lens is the most packable, I think, but you tend to use one lens more than others... (for some it is th ultra wides, for myself it is the 65).
I often travel with one messenger bag (clothes, work stuff, computer, camera/film/lenses) of carry-on dimensions. Even so, I choose the Mamiya over the Leica.
Steve_F
Well-known
Thanks for all the useful input.
I don't think I'd sell the Leica as it is nice and portable as well as being discrete. I have been saving for a used 35 'cron and so have a substantial saving toward a used '7' kit. I was doing the maths the other day and thought this is crazy money for a 35mm f2 lens and knowing full-well the RZ's capabilities, when the penny dropped. A 6x7 Rangefinder!
The RZ is staying. It is my second one. My first I traded in for a Nikon F5 in 2000 and a few years later regretted it, and later bought another RZ which is the one I still have.
As for printing - only Fibre Based, rarely less than 16"x12", normally 20"x16", but now I have some 20"x24" paper and trays......
Just need to move into my new house and get a darkroom set-up once more. Oh how I miss it!
Just one thing more (for now) - the differences between a 7 and 7II?
Thanks,
Steve.
I don't think I'd sell the Leica as it is nice and portable as well as being discrete. I have been saving for a used 35 'cron and so have a substantial saving toward a used '7' kit. I was doing the maths the other day and thought this is crazy money for a 35mm f2 lens and knowing full-well the RZ's capabilities, when the penny dropped. A 6x7 Rangefinder!
The RZ is staying. It is my second one. My first I traded in for a Nikon F5 in 2000 and a few years later regretted it, and later bought another RZ which is the one I still have.
As for printing - only Fibre Based, rarely less than 16"x12", normally 20"x16", but now I have some 20"x24" paper and trays......
Just need to move into my new house and get a darkroom set-up once more. Oh how I miss it!
Just one thing more (for now) - the differences between a 7 and 7II?
Thanks,
Steve.
sahe69
Well-known
7II has more contrasty framelines & RF patch, ability to do double exposures with a dedicated switch and the exposure compensation adjustment is more ergonomic. I think the cable release plug was also re-positioned in the 7II.
Not huge differences but having had a good opportunity to do so, I did upgrade my 7 to a 7II. The main issue for me was that sometimes under bright lighting conditions I could not see the framelines clearly. With the upgrade that problem disappeared.
Plus the black 7II is better looking.
Not huge differences but having had a good opportunity to do so, I did upgrade my 7 to a 7II. The main issue for me was that sometimes under bright lighting conditions I could not see the framelines clearly. With the upgrade that problem disappeared.
Plus the black 7II is better looking.
bwcolor
Veteran
As mentioned, I have a 7 and 7II. If I take one camera it is the 7II, but if you found a good deal on the 7 then take it. The main difference that I note is the brighter viewfinder. The film curtain knob is a bit different, never use the double exposure switch, prefer the 7II black vs 7 lighter black..big deal.. and don't care where the cable release is attached. If you put up with Leica viewfinders then the older 7 is probably on par or a bit better and probably a bit better buy on the used market.
coelacanth
Ride, dive, shoot.
I just received Mamiya 7. I won't be parting from Leica M system, but I can say Mamiya 7 is totally ready for street use. You don't have to change your shooting style from what you do with Leica. Extremely light for 6x7, familier rangefinder system with similar control layout, very short focusing throw (to me, long throw was a major downside of using Hassy for quick street stuff). It's a plastic camera (with metal frame inside, very well made) and doesn't have the elegance or pure triumph of industrial design like Leica or Hassy, but you can definitely see it's a pure tool made to do one thing: shoot anywhere everywhere. No babying, no admiring, just shoot!
Just ran a roll yesterday. Very very easy to work with, exposures were spot on virtually all frames (one shot was shot +1 because the subject was motorcycle with lots of chrome under sunlight), extremely quiet shutter is also a plus for street, candid, casual portraits.
I feel, for the first time, I can use MF in the same way as 35mm rangefinder no matter where I go, and my only regret is not getting Mamiya a lot sooner.
7 vs 7II
I researched and found out all diferences listed above, but I couldn't justify the price difference between the two. IMO, 7's VF is clear and bright more than enough, had no problem with RF under various lighting in my test shoot yesterday. Sunny, cloudy, shiny objects, backlight, indoor portrait all work. Even the 7 is not that old camera, and if it's been working to date and condition is good, I think there aren't any larger chance of electrical failure any more than 7II. There is no reason to by 7 over 7II if price were the same or very close, but again with the market prices of the body right now, I'd rather spend that extra money on films.
Just ran a roll yesterday. Very very easy to work with, exposures were spot on virtually all frames (one shot was shot +1 because the subject was motorcycle with lots of chrome under sunlight), extremely quiet shutter is also a plus for street, candid, casual portraits.
I feel, for the first time, I can use MF in the same way as 35mm rangefinder no matter where I go, and my only regret is not getting Mamiya a lot sooner.
7 vs 7II
I researched and found out all diferences listed above, but I couldn't justify the price difference between the two. IMO, 7's VF is clear and bright more than enough, had no problem with RF under various lighting in my test shoot yesterday. Sunny, cloudy, shiny objects, backlight, indoor portrait all work. Even the 7 is not that old camera, and if it's been working to date and condition is good, I think there aren't any larger chance of electrical failure any more than 7II. There is no reason to by 7 over 7II if price were the same or very close, but again with the market prices of the body right now, I'd rather spend that extra money on films.
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