x-ray
Veteran
You're assuming there will be a buyer. Let me remind you about the pack film (2x3, 4x5 and 8x10) Polaroid.
divewizard
perspicaz
One of my best friends (who was A Kodak employee of the year) has detailed the demise and mismanagement in conversations over the years.
Kodak has been a horribly mismanaged company for over 30 years. Their problems started long before the advent of digital. They had one of the best positions to take advantage of the digital revolution, but squandered their lead because of lack of vision and long term outlook. Kodak's long-term downward slide will probably result in the demise of the company before this decade is through.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
George is a fine photographer and gentleman, I think he used to be active on RFF as well.
I don't know what Kodak will do myself? Either way, sooner or later we'll be down to B&W film and digital color.
I don't know what Kodak will do myself? Either way, sooner or later we'll be down to B&W film and digital color.
Ranchu
Veteran
Not sure why anyone would trust the opinion of a stock salesman on any particular subject. Here's a thing, film is something a company can sell over and over, like gas, or beer, or toothpaste. There is no substitute for it if that's what you want, who really needs a new digital camera like a film user needs a new roll of film? That is the kind of product you want to manufacture, rather than something that is sold on hype. I'm finding it really hard to believe that somebody at kodak doesn't have their hand in the till.
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slm
Formerly nextreme
Didn't we just get a new Porta and Ektar ? Does that make sense ?
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I completely agree. It's my current workflow...
Japan---Exposures
Member
After Polaroid's demise, sales of Fuji instant films increased. 1-2 years later they reduced the product line to about half. The market affects everybody. After that only commitment to the product counts and managing profitability. For a corporation like Fujifilm, film sales must be utterly minute.
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Japan---Exposures
Member
Try selling your gasoline when everyone's switching to electric cars.
Ranchu
Veteran
There is no replacement for displacement.
http://www.alaboola.com/lists/Plymouth_Roadrunner/1968_Plymouth_Barracuda.php
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Checking his posts at p.net I'd agree with you ... he does seem like a really nice guy and very keen photographer.
I could live with that scenario but the thought of all digital with no film (not even black and white) doesn't do a lot for me.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
It doesn't matter whether you are Fuji or Kodak. Go buy a film camera at any consumer oriented store.
What slack do you expect Fuji to take up if Kodak can't make a go of film? And the old film cameras we keep buying and selling from each other is trivial. How many rolls of film do you think the guy buying a $50 AE-1 on Ebay is going to actually shoot through the thing?
Kodak's lack of success not withstanding, but Fuji and Kodak are digital companies, not film companies. And have been for a long time.
What slack do you expect Fuji to take up if Kodak can't make a go of film? And the old film cameras we keep buying and selling from each other is trivial. How many rolls of film do you think the guy buying a $50 AE-1 on Ebay is going to actually shoot through the thing?
Kodak's lack of success not withstanding, but Fuji and Kodak are digital companies, not film companies. And have been for a long time.
Ranchu
Veteran
Today I bought an Olympus Stylus Zoom 140, defaults at the wide end 38mm f4, pretty quiet, for 2 dollars at a thrift store. Bought two rolls of Superia 200 at the camera store for 8 bucks. I think fuji did pretty well as a percentage of my consumption.
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
With Fuji's film turnover being under three percent of their total turnover I'm sure someone in Japan will notice and send you a thankyou note!
Ranchu
Veteran
With Fuji's film turnover being under three percent of their total turnover I'm sure someone in Japan will notice and send you a thankyou note!
It's all in the percentages! They had a bunch of digicams at the camera store, the orange one appealed to me the most.
Trooper
Well-known
Perhaps facetious, but how about this:
Kodak stock closed today at $3.67. A 36 exposure roll of Tri-X costs $3.45. A new Leica M9 costs $6995.00 for the body alone. There are 32,669 RFF members, and other anachronistic folks that still use film.
Don't buy any more film and hoard it for a nuclear winter. Don't get with the times and buy a digital camera. Instead, take the money that you would spend when film is no longer available, and buy Kodak stock.
An investment of $6995.00 will buy 1907 shares of Kodak, assuming a $7.00 trade. If every RFF member made the same investment, RFF would collectively hold 62,299,783 shares. There are 268,900,000 shares outstanding, so RFF would own 23% of Kodak (check my math on the outstanding shares), which is surely enough to purchase the unprofitable film producing segment of the company. Think how much fun your new cottage industry of making film would be!
In all seriousness, consumer film is going away. But, someone will continue to make much smaller quantities of film than what is produced today at a higher price than what is available today. There will be less choices, and you'll have to special order it, but film will still be available for a while.
I still have several film cameras, but at $3.50 a roll plus developing costs, I'm embracing digital. Times aren't only tough for Kodak...I've had to trim the fat where I can as well.
Kodak stock closed today at $3.67. A 36 exposure roll of Tri-X costs $3.45. A new Leica M9 costs $6995.00 for the body alone. There are 32,669 RFF members, and other anachronistic folks that still use film.
Don't buy any more film and hoard it for a nuclear winter. Don't get with the times and buy a digital camera. Instead, take the money that you would spend when film is no longer available, and buy Kodak stock.
An investment of $6995.00 will buy 1907 shares of Kodak, assuming a $7.00 trade. If every RFF member made the same investment, RFF would collectively hold 62,299,783 shares. There are 268,900,000 shares outstanding, so RFF would own 23% of Kodak (check my math on the outstanding shares), which is surely enough to purchase the unprofitable film producing segment of the company. Think how much fun your new cottage industry of making film would be!
In all seriousness, consumer film is going away. But, someone will continue to make much smaller quantities of film than what is produced today at a higher price than what is available today. There will be less choices, and you'll have to special order it, but film will still be available for a while.
I still have several film cameras, but at $3.50 a roll plus developing costs, I'm embracing digital. Times aren't only tough for Kodak...I've had to trim the fat where I can as well.
Ranchu
Veteran
Shutter release is better on this zoom than the epic too, couldn't hold that thing steady...
NLewis
Established
Kodak is being killed by its legacy labor costs, mostly pension and medical obligations. The company will probably have to go through bankruptcy to blow out these liabilities.
The film, photofinishing and entertainment group has been consistently profitable, until 4Q10 when it made a small loss of $3 million. The company blamed a slump in movie making, and a rise in materials prices, notably silver. In 2009, the FPE group made a profit of $159 million. It was Kodak's most profitable division. In 2010, the FPE group made $62 million.
The biggest disappointment for the company was a precipitous decline in sales of digital point and shoot cameras, as the low end of digital cameras migrates to cellphones.
It looks to me like making film is still basically profitable. The division will probably either continue to exist within Kodak after a bankruptcy restructuring, or be sold off to a new owner. Anyone want a nice film manufacturer?
The film, photofinishing and entertainment group has been consistently profitable, until 4Q10 when it made a small loss of $3 million. The company blamed a slump in movie making, and a rise in materials prices, notably silver. In 2009, the FPE group made a profit of $159 million. It was Kodak's most profitable division. In 2010, the FPE group made $62 million.
The biggest disappointment for the company was a precipitous decline in sales of digital point and shoot cameras, as the low end of digital cameras migrates to cellphones.
It looks to me like making film is still basically profitable. The division will probably either continue to exist within Kodak after a bankruptcy restructuring, or be sold off to a new owner. Anyone want a nice film manufacturer?
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Ranchu
Veteran
Oh? Is that supported by anything? It looks like it's because their cameras suck and nobody is buying them, and silver is going through the roof, as you state below. Where are you getting this pension/medical info from?
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Frank Petronio
Well-known
Kodak has huge pension/legacy costs, like most old-school American giants.... quite a baggage.
Well somebody will always make B&W film, probably not as well, but it's doable -- one guy even built a film making machine in his garage.
And like Wet Plate and Platinum, image quality will go down. People fall all over some wet plate that's poured poorly with crap embedded in the emulsion.... They gush all over some muddy hand-brushed Platinum print.... back in the day if a photographer showed that junk they'd be laughed at.
Someday it will be the same way with silver. No matter how badly Harmon's workers stick their thumbprints onto the emulsion, or cut it crooked, or package it funky (all my experiences) I'll still use it no matter even if it kinda sucks.
Well somebody will always make B&W film, probably not as well, but it's doable -- one guy even built a film making machine in his garage.
And like Wet Plate and Platinum, image quality will go down. People fall all over some wet plate that's poured poorly with crap embedded in the emulsion.... They gush all over some muddy hand-brushed Platinum print.... back in the day if a photographer showed that junk they'd be laughed at.
Someday it will be the same way with silver. No matter how badly Harmon's workers stick their thumbprints onto the emulsion, or cut it crooked, or package it funky (all my experiences) I'll still use it no matter even if it kinda sucks.
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Ranchu
Veteran
If they screw those people out of their pensions so a venture capital firm can complete their bust out I'll never buy another roll of kodak, even tri x.