Thoughts on digital Ms....

[kbg32]

My understanding as well, while waiting for my M9 to be returned, and after conversation with that same lady in NJ, is that Leica's warranty only extends to those parts that are serviced and replaced for 1 year. Leica NJ does not issue "certificates", does not offer you a tour of the facilities, does not offer you coffee and donuts. All you get is your camera back, hopefully, and the work slip that itemizes the repair and /or parts replaced. Solms does do things differently.

 

[NickTrop]

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and, of course, the question: why not go D700 - I had one and the files are amazing. But a D700/24-70 or D700/35G package is just kinda ridiculous in size and attention drawn.)

Agree with your point but Nikon doesn't make any primes?

C'mon (agreeing here) - the M8's scores on DxOMark:

M8 Sensor Scores
Overall: 59
Color Depth: 21.1 bits
Dynamic Range: 11.3 EVS
Low Light: 663

The 2009 Nikon D5000 - an entry-level Nikon
Overall: 72
Color Depth: 22.7 bits
Dynamic Range: 12.5 EVS
Low Light: 868

Both cameras are out of production now. But you can get left-over D5000 bodies, refurbed, at B&H for $399, and Amazon is selling the M8.2 "discounted" for $6,299.99. You can get fifteen 15(!) refurbed Nikon bodies for the price Amazon is selling the M8.2 body. Please. Not even getting into the better sensor scores overall and in every category of an entry level DSLR the price disparity is laughably ridiculous to the point of absurdity. Yeah, sure, Leica commands a premium - fine, but c'mon this is simply gouging - holding Leica glass holders hostage.

Nikon makes great primes including a dirt cheap plastic fantastic 35/1.8 that auto focuses on their cheap DSLR line. The upgrade (5100) is even better (supposed to be a terrific camera for the money). With said prime, not a zoom (of course) the kit is very compact. And hey, at least I have the option of many good zoom lenses if I want them.

I find the whole "digital rangefinder" thing silly. Why in the world...? Kinda thing, especially in light of reliability issues. The only sane reason is if you have a lot sunk into Leica glass - then it only kindamakes sense... if you don't mind being held hostage. Otherwise? You gotta be kidding me. It's a joke - right? The lenses don't even autofocus, and I can autofocus or easily manually focus with a cheap $200 Nikon prime.

Oh - and PS, here are the full frame $7000+ body M9 scores:
Overall: 69
Color Depth: 22.5
Dynamic Range: 12.5
Low-light: 884.

Still lower overall technical scores than a sub $800 APS-C entry-level DSLR body...

EDIT/ADD: I don't put much stock in these minutia tech scores, personally. I publish them more to show that from an IQ standpoint, the Leica doesn't offer any benefits for all that extra cost than a mass-produced entry-level Nikon. Fine. You used to be able to argue on durability. But reading this thread, that's not even the case it appears.

 

[celluloidprop]

Agree with your point but Nikon doesn't make any primes?

Their top shelf primes (the aforementioned 35G, the 24G, presumably a 50 to come out in the future) are all $1500-2000.

I had two 50/1.4Gs with my D700 - I could never dial in AF accuracy quite well enough to get sharp images wide open (and it was fairly soft wide open anyway). From what I gathered, that was not uncommon with the fast consumer lenses.

The 24-70G I had was a brilliant lens - sharp wide open, accurate AF. But a beast that I never wanted to carry around.

I don't have a lot of interest in APS-sized dSLRs. Tiny dark viewfinders on the low-end, or large, decent ones in a big body on the upper-end. Lenses are still quite large. APS/u43 are fine sensor formats in mirrorless bodies where lenses can be small enough to suit.

 

[jaapv]

Or, possibly, NJ and Solms have different practices...wouldn't be the first time (as noted in discussions regarding warranty transfers, passports, etc). I don't recall ever getting a certificate from NJ, but they've always taken care of my needs.

Jeff

If I were an American Leica owner I would find this rather frustrating. After all, the Leica " family feeling" is part of the brand's attraction for many.

 

[NickTrop]

@ celluloidprop... We agree to disagree, then... I don't consider the overall kit with a prime objectionably large or cumbersome at all. I struggle, in all honesty, to see the advantage of other form factors over a compact DSLR with a prime. You can't put either of them in your pocket, they don't weigh that much more. While the VF is dark, it's not necessary to have them brighter because of autofocus. Prefer manual? There's a little rangefinder function that's surprisingly accurate to assist. The VF is bright enough to compose in any lighting condition. The lower end primes in my experience are fine. Nice and light with good sharpness, flare control, contrast and color rendition. "The best" from a testing standpoint? - Probalby not but I'd bet a dollar to a donut that no one would be able to pick out the pictures taken with the expensive glass from the cheap stuff 9 times out of 10. Good enough to not make it worth it to me to spring for the top-shelf stuff.

 

[Keith]

The thing that amazes me is the acceptance people display at owning a $6500.00 camera that needs to go back to Solms (or the equivalent) every couple of years to get something massaged ... and then they give you a certificate to let you know how wonderful the whole experience has been. I'm sure people treasure these affirmations and tuck them carefully away with their original packaging and paperwork and value them the way we value the dead sea scrolls!

It's all a bit of a larf really!

Hopefully when my D700 hits 150,000 shutter actuations and needs a bit of love ... Nikon will treat me so royally.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

The thing that amazes me is the acceptance people display at owning a $6500.00 camera that needs to go back to Solms (or the equivalent) every couple of years to get something massaged ... and then they give you a certificate to let you know how wonderful the whole experience has been. I'm sure people treasure these affirmations and tuck them carefully away with their original packaging and paperwork and value them the way we value the dead sea scrolls!

It's all a bit of a larf really!

Hopefully when my D700 hits 150,000 shutter actuations and needs a bit of love ... Nikon will treat me so royally.

It's akin to collecting boxes of photographic crap. I once bought a BOX of a Leica M3 spool and the box happened to come with the spool. the value of the box, with or without the spool was more than the spool itself. I took the spool to Iraq and gave the box to a friend who wanted it. It's just so ridiculous.
Next time I buy a framing hammer to replace a 26oz'er which went missing a few years back, I'm going to carefully remove the paper wrap around the handle and place it in a box for its collector value.

Phil Forrest

 

[dave lackey]

You pays your money and you takes your chances. Folks, if you don't like Leica products, great! Just leave it alone on the forum. No one is forcing you to spend YOUR money or MINE. If I had the price of a Nikon D3 whatever, I would not buy it, but instead buy an M9. THAT is MY decision and YOU have no right to "diss" it, "piss" it, or otherwise comment negatively on MY decision to purchase a product. I personally don't give a rats how you spend YOUR money and it is none of MY business!

Of course, I do not have any money to buy gas for the car, let alone a new camera of any kind....🙁 So this is academic, isn't it?🙂

If we agree to disagree, fine, and drop it! Why does this pissing match keep coming up over and over again?😕

 

[celluloidprop]

No one appears to be having a pissing match but you.

Commenting on, or criticizing, a camera company's 'uptime' record and/or customer service is not a pissing match.

 

[Jeff S]

If I were an American Leica owner I would find this rather frustrating. After all, the Leica " family feeling" is part of the brand's attraction for many.

Kinda like the Leica forum; Americans frequently treated differently. 🙂

But, we have thick skins.

Jeff

 

[LCT]

Funny those comparos between apples and oranges. A rangefinder is a rangefinder. When i need a dSLR i take one. When i don't, the features or my Canon and Nikon gear are irrelevant.

 

[Lss]

I find the whole "digital rangefinder" thing silly.

I find a lot of things silly. And then steer away from Internet forums discussing those silly things. Problem solved.

 

[kbg32]

Got my M9 back yesterday. Quite surprised since Leica NJ told me another 5-10 days. Everything is great! My world is in order once again. I even got a certificate certifying what was repaired.