time for a redesign

Roger Hicks said:
It's got a shutter speed dial you can turn with your finger, as fast or as slow as you like. I'm a bit puzzled here.

Cheers,

R.
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If you use a modern dSLR the ergonomics of the camera allows you to rest your finger on the wheel, whilst on a M, the wheel is on top of the camera far away from where your fingers normally would be located.
Thus I'd have to move my hand from resting position to the top of the camera in order to change shutter speed on my M3, whereas with a Canon Id just flick the wheel my finger was already on, providing a simpler, quicker, smoother flow of action.


Unless you're "monkey gripping"

 
as for design changes:
How comes that since the late M6's we have three VF magnifications in film M's, but only one in digital bodies?

I can imagine a really great upgrade for these VF's: Only one frame, with enough room around, but a VF that changes magnification with the lens...
 
Roger Hicks said:
Why would they do that? Ad why did you think that? This is akin to the argument that bicycles need a radical redesign, because two wheels is so passé.

If you don't know why they might do it, consider the possibility that they can't think of any good reason to change it either.

Otherwise you are just advocating chance for the sake of change.

Cheers,

R.
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hmm pretty sure with that thinking the m3 woulda never been released..
 
Jockos said:
If you use a modern dSLR the ergonomics of the camera allows you to rest your finger on the wheel, whilst on a M, the wheel is on top of the camera far away from where your fingers normally would be located. . . .
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Right next to the shutter release is 'far away'? Far enough that you can't change easily it accidentally, certainly.

Cheers,

R.
 
denizg7 said:
hmm pretty sure with that thinking the m3 woulda never been released..
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Which part of my thinking are you criticizing? The idea that you make changes when you can make a better camera, not just for the sake of change.

Advayages of the M3 over the IIIf included a combined range/viewfinder; faster lens-changing; three selectable, parallax-compensated brightline viewfinder frames; a single shutter-speed dial; provision for meter coupling; lever wind; self-resetting counter. In return, the camera had to be a bit bigger: too much bigger, for some people's taste.

Now, what technical improvements are you proposing to incorporate in your redesigned M? The one for which, in your own words, you can't even think of any reason why it should be redesigned?

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Right next to the shutter release is 'far away'? Far enough that you can't change easily it accidentally, certainly.

Cheers,

R.
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Far enough to be unreachable without changing my grip! For a digital M, the ideal position for me, would be a vertical wheel just in front of, or behind the shutter release. Compared to a film body, there should be space enough after removing the lever.
 
FrozenInTime said:
Have to admit it would be nice to have 3 strap lugs to allow the the camera to be carried vertically.
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Feh! I see no need for that!

Richard G said:
I like the M5 a lot. But I think I would wait for complete regression of the human nose and / or some radical evolution of the human eye and brain before changing much in the M rangefinder camera formula.
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The only thing about the M5 worth bringing back might be its shutter speed dial. I liked being able to turn it with a finger-tip.
 
Jockos said:
Far enough to be unreachable without changing my grip! For a digital M, the ideal position for me, would be a vertical wheel just in front of, or behind the shutter release. Compared to a film body, there should be space enough after removing the lever.
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Interesting. I just went and checked both an M2 and an M8. I move my finger, but don't change my grip. Then again, I don't necessarily press the shutter release with the very tip of my finger, either. This is one of those things that had literally never occurred to me as being a problem until you brought it up. It still isn't, for me. I wonder how many take your view, and how many take mine?

Remember that the big, overhanging, concentric dial on the M5 was a long way from universally popular. This could be taken as evidence of the conservatism of Leica users or it could equally be that the traditional dial actually works better for more people.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Interesting. I just went and checked both an M2 and an M8. I move my finger, but don't change my grip. Then again, I don't necessarily press the shutter release with the very tip of my finger, either. This is one of those things that had literally never occurred to me as being a problem until you brought it up. It still isn't, for me. I wonder how many take your view, and how many take mine?

Remember that the big, overhanging, concentric dial on the M5 was a long way from universally popular. This could be taken as evidence of the conservatism of Leica users or it could equally be that the traditional dial actually works better for more people.

Cheers,

R.
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Reading this I picked up my M3 for a tryout, and I can indeed bend my finger over the softie just enough to turn the dial, but its kind of stiff this way - nowhere near as smooth as adjusting speed on my former 5D.
Normally I'd use both the index finger and my thumb, which involves changing my thumb grip from the winder to the dial.

The M5 dial is very interesting, Id love to try one of those out, it's still in a horizontal position though.
 
Jockos said:
Reading this I picked up my M3 for a tryout, and I can indeed bend my finger over the softie just enough to turn the dial, but its kind of stiff this way - nowhere near as smooth as adjusting speed on my former 5D.
Normally I'd use both the index finger and my thumb, which involves changing my thumb grip from the winder to the dial.

The M5 dial is very interesting, Id love to try one of those out, it's still in a horizontal position though.
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This could be one of the reasons I never use soft releases... I've long felt that soft releases and bolt-on finger-grips add bulk without adding anything else.

Cheers,

R.
 
DavidC

DavidC

The two things I would change is 1. the loading system make it easier to load by putting a swing back.
also 2. put in a rectangular eyepiece in back that can accommodate nikon eyepiece diopters and make eyepiece with larger exit pupil--no more squinting into viewfinder!!
 
Seems the humble M has already had a redesign with the advent of the digital M - they got fat!

More seriously though, I would not like to see the M design change, but do think Leica should look at a complimentary digital rf line to supplement the current M's, a line where they could go wild, and implement all the innovation some people would want. They could call it high tech M, or some such, and would have all the sort of latest funkiness the new fujis have for example and more.

Complimenting the range is the key word here, as Leica has already learned the hard lessons of forcing change on all of their userbase. Offering two lines would give the traditionalists (of which I am one) a classic M they know and love, as well as giving those who seek more technical innovation a Leica product as well.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.
 
Murchu said:
Seems the humble M has already had a redesign with the advent of the digital M - they got fat!

More seriously though, I would not like to see the M design change, but do think Leica should look at a complimentary digital rf line to supplement the current M's, a line where they could go wild, and implement all the innovation some people would want. They could call it high tech M, or some such, and would have all the sort of latest funkiness the new fujis have for example and more.

Complimenting the range is the key word here, as Leica has already learned the hard lessons of forcing change on all of their userbase. Offering two lines would give the traditionalists (of which I am one) a classic M they know and love, as well as giving those who seek more technical innovation a Leica product as well.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
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Dear Damien,

Hard to argue. But anyway, just 48 hours now,,,

Cheers,

R.
 
I want the M9 Titanium design becoming the new design for the new Leica M. It was modern, and it would fit nicely with the more towards live view, HD video capable CMOS sensor. Also, LED lit framelines are far better... And don't make the front look ugly.
 
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