Transition to digital ?

Transition to digital ?

  • Zero. I'm 100% faithful to film.

    Votes: 106 36.7%
  • 1 to 30%. I'm getting into it.

    Votes: 62 21.5%
  • 31 to 70%. I do both.

    Votes: 73 25.3%
  • 71 to 99%. Mostly digital now.

    Votes: 36 12.5%
  • 100%. No more film for me!

    Votes: 12 4.2%

  • Total voters
    289
Film to digital

Film to digital

I only shoot digital for money (weddings and wire photojournalalism). For art and street work, I stick with film and hold true to my Edward R. Murrow-HCB values. The other night I shot a music circle with a 20D digital, and those pics still could not compare with what I shot the previous week, at the same place, with my Leica M6. I wasn't surprised, really.

Chris
canonetc
 
I am not a lifelong photographer. I don't do it professionally, nor did I study it in any capacity in school. I had a "passing interest" but never pursued it.

I used to just have a P&S for snapshots- friends, events, travel, etc.
Then I bought a Sony Cybershot and used that for a couple years. But what I had was a recorder, not a photographic tool, if that makes sense.

Then last fall, I called up a old friend whom I hadn't seen in years and invited him to Game 7 of the ALCS (I still weep occassionally!). We were at his apartment and he had a couple photos he had taken blown up on his wall. I looked through his portfolio and really liked what he was doing with a camera. It was a Contax T(don't know what number). But he said he really liked the Zeiss optics.

I started to dig up some of the old cameras I had and none really excited me to the point where I wanted to go out and make pictures. (read: they all sucked).

Then at a antique co-op, I spotted an old Exa. It called my name and I bought it. I love the old feel of it, the complete lack of electronics. Then I got a Rollei 35 for an absolute steal on that auction website. It hasn't really been too long since (4 months) but not a day went by that I haven't taken at least one shot.

Then I found this place and all bets are off! I found a IIIc, and a Konica to add to my collection. I have my eyes on another camera too, which I will buy new and it is not a digital. I'll give you a hint- my girlfriend is going to be pissed!
 
I now divide my photgraphy approx. 50/50 between a film-RF and a DSLR.

Both have their strong and weak points, and they complement each other perfectly.
 
i voted zero, but just because i'm holding out for new digital rangefinders, higher-end digicams, and the olympus e-3.
 
Mostly digital now for auctions. But I am using it more for scenic pictures too. Since my good, fast, close by slide processor stopped doing slide work, it forced me to change.
I am amazed at what I can do with just a Nikon Coolpix 2 MP camera. Next one will be
6 or 7 MP but still and advanced point and shoot, dont want to haul all the lenses and gear of a DSLR kit.
 
I shoot both. I love film because my film cameras are all substantially smaller, lighter and less conspicuous than my digital SLR.

But, once the technology arrives for a digital M (I don't care who makes it), that gives me:

1) about 10-12 mp;
2) full frame sensor, and
3) retains the same size, weight and inconspicuousness of my leicas

I would have no hesitations in going completely digital. Just a pragmatist 🙂 Film will never completely die, however, too many art and fine art enthusiasts who will sustain a niche market.
 
I've been "Getting into Digital" since 1981. My oldest Digital camera is from 1992. My favorite Digital camera, the Nikon E3, is from 1998. I use it to take pictures of cameras, and use it to test out lenses. At work I use Nikon D1x's, I bought them when they first came out.

Real pictures on my time are with film.
 
Amazing how this thread is still alive after more than a year. Is there any way we could freeze it, then start a new one, so a year from now we could compare the stats?
 
Well, its been over a year since I first replied to this topic. Boy how things changed photography in just a year.

I can no longer tell the difference in print quality between film and digital when digital work is shot on high end cameras and printed with quality paper and printers. I was in a well known fine art gallery in Boston last month, and there were digital images and prints selling for $7K each. Seems that art is because of the persons vision and reputation, and doesn't matter that they shoot with. But we already knew that 🙂 ! Statements have been announced of photography giants confirming they are dropping many of their paper/film based products due to lack of sales. And on it goes. The technology is upon us no matter what we desire and the future is far more different that we would have thought 5 years ago. 5 years ago I remember saying, "Never! Ain't gonna happen!" And here we are today, and I'm 99% digital at this point.

From a personal standpoint, my medium format and 4x5 large format cameras are sitting basically idle for the last year. Clients don't want film, and prefer the look of a well done digital image. But they aren't talking P&S class or low end SLR, they want 11Mp to 22Mp images shot on high end 35mm digital or medium format platforms. Typically the $8K or so range cameras, because these are more than capable of anything you can produce with 35mm or medium format film. If they want that film look, they do that in Photoshop. It works, and when done right can fool even the film die hards. I've seen that over and over again. Some contrast tweaks, curves, grain, and choosing the right output. As picky as I've always been about the 'digital look' of digital images not looking as good as film, I can no longer tell when a good photographer and Photoshop artist does his thing. I no longer bet on whats been shot on film or digital anymore.

The old school side of my brain still likes the feel of a roll of film, loading 4x5 sheets in the dark, and the exercise of sitting in the dark and watching a image appear on a piece of paper as it soaks in a tray of developer. But I can't dismiss the creativity thats been unlocked by shooting digital and running the images through Photoshop. The speed at which I can create images far surpasses what I could do in the darkroom. The ability to so freely create images has all but pushed the old school stuff aside. I am no longer locked in a slow and tedious medium, but immersed in a sea of liquid creativity. So even my personal photography has now gone the way of digital since even I can now create a very convincing film look at will, and match my favorite film stocks.

Its interesting to look back and see the difference a year made on me!
 
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Stephen, thank you for an elegant posting. It makes me feel optimistic about the future of photography. If more digital RF's appear, and the price gets affordable, I think there will be attractive reasons for a transition to digital RF cameras.

Gene
 
I must estar loco de la cabeza, because I most surely can tell film shots from digital, most definitively mine of course, not only because I know they were taken in either medium, but the look and feel is there.

Many people are still very biased on whether a photograph has merit because it is taken with a digital camera or shot on film; like a world-famous politician once quoted and put it: "poppycock".

Whether you like to draw with pencils, fountain pens, crayons or mud, it's the technique and the end result of how you handled your media.

Like they say in my country: Tan-tán.
 
gabrielma,

Yes, digital does has a look about it that easily separates it from film, and is pretty obvious to most people. But I also think its one of the draws to that medium for commercial work. Its fresh, different, slick, and not something thats been seen day in and day out for the last century. Just like the styles you see in magazines go in and out of fashion. Something new, something different, until it gets old, then it's off to something else. So the very fact that it is different has some appeal all by itself aside from the obvious other advantages.

But its also very easy to manipulate the digital image such that all the clues that tell you its not film are gone, and if printed on good paper with a quality printer its very very deceiving. A photographer friend of mine attended a large photo show aimed at professional photographers. One of the vendors had a display with 10 11x14 prints. 5 shot on digital, and 5 shot on film. They offered $500 to anyone that could correctly pick all the digital vs film shots. The vendor left with their $500 in their pocket at the end of the show which seems to show the technology has indeed arrived. If a conference full of professional photographers can't easily see the difference, most other people aren't going to spot it either.

And you are so totally right on. Pencil, film, watercolors, digital, slinging mud, doesn't matter. If the end results makes you feel something, thats all that counts. The end result.

Gene,

I'm with you on this. A follow on digital RF with higher quality, lower price, and M-mount lenses will definitely hurt my wallet! When it appears, I won't hesitate for an instant to grab one. I've almost bought the R-D1 several times, but always decided to wait and see if either the price drops drastically, or something better comes along.
 
My own transition: digital -> film

My own transition: digital -> film

This has been a very interesting thread to read. 🙂

My own transition has been the other way around: digital -> film. I started with digital photography almost 2 years ago but found myself slowly drifting towards film. I think that was partially due to limitations of consumer-grade P&S digicams which I started out with such shutter lag, noise, poor low-light performance, etc.. As Stephen (Faust) pointed out my initial experiences with digital might have been better had I spent more money upfront on better DSLR gear (such as the then current Canon DRebel and 10D for example).

Over time, however, I've come to prefer the look of film over digital even for colour shots. I find that most of the time my P&S digicams produce images with clinical sharpness and harsh colour and tonal transitions. Or perhaps my digital post-processing skills aren't quite good enough to make my digital images look more like film.

As others have already said, I think that film and digital aren't necessary mutually exclusive. I tend to view them as 2 different mediums and will continue shooting both for as long as I can.

I voted 31 - 70%, as nowadays I shoot approx. 30 - 50% digital.

PS: Stephen, I'd love to hear from you any advice, tips, etc. you might have on how to make digital images look more like film. This is one of continuing struggles with digital...
 
JohnL said:
I know there are few real digital RFs as yet, but there are many digital viewfinder "prosumer" cameras, and many, perhaps most, of those who haunt the RF forum also shoot other types of camera. I was wondering how far the transition to digital has gone among us ...

One year after this poll was started I still use 100% film.
There are mainy two levels of probs for me , result and handling, and at the end there is a philosophical question too I would have to find an answer for.
Concerning results:

Skin looks like vinyl
Sky and closed portions of one colour look like airbrush
Highlights are always blown out in bright sunlight
and/or shadow sink in 100% black loosing all structure.
There is no real B&W comaparable to silver negs, desaturated colourshots from a digital camera are not black and white
Ther is still too much colour noise
Poor transitions let objects sometimes look like cut and paste
A crop factor eats my wide lenses and their DOF

Concerning the handling:
I hate picking functions from menus, I want knobs !
I hate lugging power supply for a camera which works on battery only.
I hate in general electronic gadgets with embedded systems, producing unexpected breakdowns, no matter if temporary or final breakdowns.
The only choice are DSLRS at the time, too bulky for many places.
The return on invest I could get from saving film and dev is eaten by an enormous loss of worth, that means digital is expensive but you notice it first id you want to "upgrade". and have to face that you are broke because you gave away your old analog top gear for some few bucks
I would hate a camera which I have to upgrade, it makes me feel somebody takes the piss outta me. What kinda idiocy is the need to upgrade a $1500,- camera after a year or two ?

IF ALL the result probs were solved AND i could buy something like a fullframe RD-1
for about $1200 Maybe I'd try it anyway.

But even then the very last question is not answered: What does it mean for a photog to have not a material source like a neg, into which light burned a slice of reality.
I am not sure at all if for me this neg can ever be replaced by some magnetic dots.
The question of the material source is the essential one which makes the dimension of the change visible.

At the time iirt seems tho got a lot of time left to think about the very last decisive question and how I will answer it one day.

Bertram
 
When I originally voted on this poll, I was firmly in the "I shoot both" camp. Since my Minolta died, I sold my Nikon, and gave away my Kyocera, I'm back to all film cameras. I can't say I really miss digital other than the convenience of an all-digital workflow.

For me, it has nothing to do with film or digital being "better" than the other; my desired end product more often than not is a digital file for online display or printing by inkjet, as I have not learned darkroom skills... yet. Now that I'm comfortable with the basic technical aspects of taking a photo, having to control anything other than focus, aperture, and shutter speed is just annoying, for lack of a better word. I love the gliding of the lens focus, the snick of the shutter, the smooth ratchet of the film advance. The process just feels right and satisfying.

Maybe someday in the near future I'll be forced by the march of technological progress into readopting digital cameras in order to continue with photography.

Maybe.

But that day isn't today.
 
A lot of what you are describing Bertram is the failings of the middle and lower end digital cameras. In that sense, I have to agree with most of your comments. But, let me address it from the higher end cameras like the EOS 1D Mark II ($4K new), the EOS 1Ds ($3K used), and the EOS 1DsMarkII ($8K new). These are the cameras that really make images comparable to 35mm film IMO.

Skin looks like vinyl
This is a retouching issue, and not inherent in the digital format. I also hate the vinyl look, and it seems to be prevalent in glamour magazines (Stuff, FHM, Maxim, etc). Yech!!! Pick up a copy of Vogue or Elle magazine and look at the skin tones there. Beautiful, mostly digital, and no vinyl.

Sky and closed portions of one colour look like airbrush Highlights are always blown out in bright sunlight and/or shadow sink in 100% black loosing all structure.
This is a characteristic of the smaller sensors. The larger full frame sensors don't have this issue, as well as some of the higher level prosumer cameras. Its also further made an issue by the manufacturers tweaking those cameras to deliver contrasty highly saturated images that they feel the everyday P&S shooter wants. That blocks up the details in the blacks. And the compression they use doesn't help at all.

Higher end cameras have dynamic range almost exactly the same as E6 film. After shooting E6 for hundreds of years (ok, it just feels that way 🙂, shooting digital is very comfortable and similar. Smooth gradations, detail in the highlights and blacks, very similar to E6. Very different than what you describe above.

There is no real B&W comaparable to silver negs, desaturated colourshots from a digital camera are not black and white There is still too much colour noise Poor transitions let objects sometimes look like cut and paste
The color noise is from smaller or cheaper sensors. Once you move up to the more expensive sensors, the noise isn't an issue at all as noted by the 'clinical' or 'sterile' look people talk about. Thats caused by a lack of color noise, grain, etc.

And I disagree that desaturating color isn't real B&W. Its every bit as real as sliver negs. With silver negs you desaturate it when it hits the neg. With digital you desaturate it before you 'develop' the film. They are both images captured sans color. In fact, you can even use your normal filters you use with B&W when you shoot a color digital image. It will look weird in color, but so does it when you looked through the lens when shooting B&W. But when you desaturate the color digital image, you will get the same net results you would have with B&W film and the same filter. The process is different, but the results will be the same. The only difference is where the translation happens from color to B&W. One is between the lens and film, and the other is between the 'film' and final paper.

A crop factor eats my wide lenses and their DOF
There is no crop factor with full frame sensors! 14mm IS 14mm, period. I applaud Cannon for going with the full frames, and switched from Nikon because they decided to stick with a crop factor. To me, once Canon came out with a high quality full frame sensor capable of 35mm film quality, all my disapproval of the digital format went away. Consumer cameras and P&S are all cropped or have very small sensors.

I hate picking functions from menus, I want knobs !
Handling, ergonomics, feel, etc, are all by nature a personal thing. Yea, I like knobs also. The higher end DSLR cameras use the same knobs as a film camera. In fact, the EOS film and digital cameras feature the same controls and feel he same. Cover up the LCD and the differences are less than obvious. The lower end cameras and consumer P&S rely on menus, and poorly laid out ones at that. There is a huge difference between P&S and prosumer cameras, and top of the line professional cameras. The pro cameras are meant to feel just like their film counterparts, and they did an excellent job doing that. Much like Epson is trying to do with the R-D1, and nearly got it right.

I hate lugging power supply for a camera which works on battery only.
Me to. But my Nikon F4 and Nikon F5 film cameras had the same problem, and after switching to Canon, my EOS 1V film camera was the same. Its something we aren't going to get away from unless you turn on the way back machines and want to go retro or old school. Which is fun in and by itself 🙂 I still have may Canon QL17 GIII, Yashica 35C, Olympus 35RC, and Keiv 4A. Can't seem to part with them. Small, light, easy to use, etc. But none have seem film through them in quite a while 🙁 But sell them, no way!

I hate in general electronic gadgets with embedded systems, producing unexpected breakdowns, no matter if temporary or final breakdowns.
Unfortunately, you've described most everything in our modern society. But its not really any different from mechanical breakdowns. Nothing, electronic or mechanical is perfect, and cameras on both sides of the fence have their issues.

The only choice are DSLRS at the time, too bulky for many places.
A DLSR is big and bulky. But so is a FM2 compared to a 35mm film P&S. Or a Nikon F5 compared to a FM2. Or a 4x5 compared to a 6x6. There are smaller digital cameras that are not bulky, but then you make a trade off just like you would in film. "Should I take the 4x5 for its quality, or just the FM2 and a 50mm to go light?". There are some good P&S cameras that are very light, but you will sacrifice quality in return. With stuff like the Epson R-D1, you might get both in a small package at some point.

The return on invest I could get from saving film and dev is eaten by an enormous loss of worth, that means digital is expensive but you notice it first id you want to "upgrade". and have to face that you are broke because you gave away your old analog top gear for some few bucks I would hate a camera which I have to upgrade, it makes me feel somebody takes the piss outta me. What kinda idiocy is the need to upgrade a $1500,- camera after a year or two ?

There is no enormous loss of worth unles one chooses to have one!

If the camera takes excellent pictures and serves the need, why would you need to upgrade? Even if the value of the camera declines, does it stop producing images, or the quality degrade to less than what it is today? No. So why the need to upgrade?

Its not like computers where the applications grow in size and function and require more and more horsepower. The requirements of the application for 35mm film have not changed in decades, and if the DSLR meets those requirements today, it will still meet them as long as the requirements don't change. If a 35mm digital or flim camera can make beautiful 8x10s today, it will still be able to make the same quality 8x10's 10 years from now. Unless people want better quality 10 years from now, either a 35mm film or digital camera will suffice. I wouldn't have said this 5 years ago, but only because 5 years ago digital wasn't close to 35mm film quality. But that has changed.

But even then the very last question is not answered: What does it mean for a photog to have not a material source like a neg, into which light burned a slice of reality.
Nothing! As long as the slice of reality is captured, saved, and able to be archived, the medium it resides on isn't important. Its the capture thats important, and the ability to save it for future use. Would Ansel Adams images be any less compelling, or more so, if it was captured on a different media but with the same end results? The media is irrelevant compared to the image captured.

In fact, I should probably say, "Everything!" instead. Having only one material source of the original is far inferior to being able to have as many perfect and exact duplicates of the original source as one feels the need to have. With digital, I can make thousands of exact original duplicates without any quality loss if so desired. I can spread then around at my work, home, sisters, friends, and my studio, or around the world. Chances of me loosing that image are far less than if I had my sole negative at home and my house burned down. I want to safe guard my images, and digital will do that with a good archival backup process that transcends the media and technology it resides on far better than a single physical image.

Now, I am not trying to convince you, or anyone else for that matter, that digital is where you should be. I am just explaining some of the differences between consumer and professional gear in the digital arena that solve the issues you mentioned. So while I have defended digital in relation to your specific issues, I am not in any way trying to say that since those issues are resolved you should consider the switch. Quite the contrary. Just like I may prefer oil, I would never argue that watercolor is dead, or any different than art done in oil. The media is just a tool in the expression of ones vision. If I like an image, I could care less what it was shot with, or captured on.
 
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