gertf
Established
stefan_dinu said:
I'm not sure I understand! Please explain 'western compassionate smile' 🙂
Trip to Morocco-advice needed
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I'm not sure I understand! Please explain 'western compassionate smile' 🙂
stefan_dinu
Established
I am not so proficient in english, as you may already observed, because of I don't have any formal training in English language. What I was trying to describe was a kind of compasionate smile that sometimes you will notice on some people coming from west in your poor country. If you are not from a poor country with people in need of compassion, you will not understand what I am talking about.
I am not beeing judgemental here, and I didn't want to offend anyone. I just happen to know the difference in a smile that says "I am really happy to be here and I am having a good time", and the smile that says "I pitty you for living here". But we got a little off-topic with that. 🙂
I am not beeing judgemental here, and I didn't want to offend anyone. I just happen to know the difference in a smile that says "I am really happy to be here and I am having a good time", and the smile that says "I pitty you for living here". But we got a little off-topic with that. 🙂
Last edited:
joshuar
Member
i agree, and that is the reason that i took very few photographs of the people there, and did so only when i had been given permission .
it was, as you say, the fact that i seemed to be a tourist taking photos of the people there maybe because i found them curious, and different, that i found it awkward to do so. in england i like to photograph poeple - strangers - because i like to photograph people. in morocco i wanted to photograph people - strangers - because i like to photograh people. i didn't just want to take photographs of them because they were moroccan, but that is how it would have seemed, and that is why i found it difficult.
wgerrard
Veteran
Stefan, your English is pretty polished. I certainly knew what you were talking about, and you explained it very well.
I've seen that same smile on Americans in London when someone tells them the hotel isn't air conditioned. It's a smile with the "I'm so sorry for you all" subtext.
I've seen that same smile on Americans in London when someone tells them the hotel isn't air conditioned. It's a smile with the "I'm so sorry for you all" subtext.
gertf
Established
Stefan, no need to excuse your English! Just wanted to be certain of what you meant. Thanks for the clarification.
raid
Dad Photographer
I have taken photos of people easily in Jordan, so photography in Morocco should not be more difficult. I even took photos of bedouin women.
Not to side-track this thread, but it is a related question:
What about photography in Saudi Arabia?Is it allowed? Is it allowed but difficult?
How about taking photos of people praying?
Not to side-track this thread, but it is a related question:
What about photography in Saudi Arabia?Is it allowed? Is it allowed but difficult?
How about taking photos of people praying?
Pablito
coco frío
stefan_dinu said:
I'd explain is as, "western condescending smile"
kuzano
Veteran
Ah yes ... to clarify...
Ah yes ... to clarify...
Since this thread has taken a political turn (and perhaps I contributed). I am not, and do not anticipate being a world traveler. But since you all don't know me, my remark may have been taken wrong. Secondly, I don't photograph people, so the question of how they may react to me is inconsequential to me. I consider taking pictures of people an invasion of personal territory, if not privacy. That personal choice leaves me with the other 95% of the world to record on film and/or memory cards. Any people who do show up in my photography are not considered subjects and whenever possible are unrecognizable.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.
Ah yes ... to clarify...
stefan_dinu said:
Since this thread has taken a political turn (and perhaps I contributed). I am not, and do not anticipate being a world traveler. But since you all don't know me, my remark may have been taken wrong. Secondly, I don't photograph people, so the question of how they may react to me is inconsequential to me. I consider taking pictures of people an invasion of personal territory, if not privacy. That personal choice leaves me with the other 95% of the world to record on film and/or memory cards. Any people who do show up in my photography are not considered subjects and whenever possible are unrecognizable.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.
stefan_dinu
Established
I don't think is bad that we brought some other issues in this discution. It sure becoming interesting. I never thought about photographing other people as beeing intrusive. Never. Because I will never have something against any other people taking my picture, for example.
For that matter, I like the most, what Jeff Mermelstein once said (from memory): there where just photons that where waisted. I just put my camera in front and captured them. What harm could this be?
The discusion is bigger than this and it is one of those issues when none is right or wrong. It is about option and how we understand the world, our meaning in this world and our scale of values.
And in fact, this was the main topic from the beggining. Even though I myself don't have trouble with anyone photographying me on the street (in my private home is something else 🙂 ), I want to know if people that are living in the area where I will haunt images are upset with me taking their pictures.
As for photographying people praying, I never wanted to do that. THIS is too intrusive for my taste, and I am sure that no one will be happy to be a model while he prays.
For that matter, I like the most, what Jeff Mermelstein once said (from memory): there where just photons that where waisted. I just put my camera in front and captured them. What harm could this be?
The discusion is bigger than this and it is one of those issues when none is right or wrong. It is about option and how we understand the world, our meaning in this world and our scale of values.
And in fact, this was the main topic from the beggining. Even though I myself don't have trouble with anyone photographying me on the street (in my private home is something else 🙂 ), I want to know if people that are living in the area where I will haunt images are upset with me taking their pictures.
As for photographying people praying, I never wanted to do that. THIS is too intrusive for my taste, and I am sure that no one will be happy to be a model while he prays.
wgerrard
Veteran
Nice post, Kuzano. It is often difficult to avoid political coloration of discussions like this.
Although some effective images obviously result, I'm not attracted to the notion of shooting tight photos of anonymous strangers on the street. Reluctance about invading their privacy is part of it, but the larger part is that pictures of complete strangers mean less to me than pictures of people with whom I've at least spoken. Even then, I take very few.
Street photography also seems to be an urban exercise. For better or worse, I'm in suburbia. My streets are four lanes wide and filled with SUV's and the odd jogger or two.
Although some effective images obviously result, I'm not attracted to the notion of shooting tight photos of anonymous strangers on the street. Reluctance about invading their privacy is part of it, but the larger part is that pictures of complete strangers mean less to me than pictures of people with whom I've at least spoken. Even then, I take very few.
Street photography also seems to be an urban exercise. For better or worse, I'm in suburbia. My streets are four lanes wide and filled with SUV's and the odd jogger or two.
emraphoto
Veteran
pics in morrocco
pics in morrocco
well i'm the fella working on a hotel and photo tour company in north africa. i will actually be in north africa for most of late february and march looking at property so maybe we'll cross paths... i wish i was a year further down the road and i could offer you my services and hospitality.
here's what i have learnt, and i do have a "bit" of experience in the area and process of photographing the locals.
1/ take a camera. camera's are acceptable contrary to opinions expressed earlier. take the hexar and nothing else. get out there and get close.
2/ do not, repeat DO NOT even think of taking pictures of any gov't buildings. as a matter of fact don't even take a camera near one. HEADACHES!!!
3/ in my opinion the best way to get comfortable pictures of the locals is to engage them. speak with them, ask questions, smile, laugh and wipe the look of pity permanently from your face.
4/ be very, very aware that jordan and morrocco are very different places. i don't mean this as a snipe, just a fact. algeria, libya and tunisia are all right next door'ish and they are all very, very different places. morrocco is quite accustomed to and dependent on tourists with camera's. the populous knows this.
5/ i personally don't agree with the "pocket full of coins" idea. realize this is only my opinion and experience. the hardest thing you will have to deal with is people trying to convince you to buy something... be it their good's or dubious service. you absolutely MUST learn to be polite but firm. you are a mark until your actions dictate otherwise. to pass out any coins of any kind will instantly make a you a very obvious mark and word will travel fast. photo's for coins will illicit "photo's for coins" if you know what i mean.
6/ avoid the tourist traps. avoid the tourist traps, avoid... well you get the point.
7/ be very cautious of photographing women alone. best to just not do it. especially as a tourist with no "friends" in the community. it will buy you as much trouble as photographing gov't buildings.
anyhow, blah blah blah. relax, talk to people and take their photo. again, i will be in the "neighbourhood" many times this year so drop me a line if you care to chat more!
i think jon claremont has been in and out of the area as well, he may have some useful advice if needed.
cheers
john
pics in morrocco
well i'm the fella working on a hotel and photo tour company in north africa. i will actually be in north africa for most of late february and march looking at property so maybe we'll cross paths... i wish i was a year further down the road and i could offer you my services and hospitality.
here's what i have learnt, and i do have a "bit" of experience in the area and process of photographing the locals.
1/ take a camera. camera's are acceptable contrary to opinions expressed earlier. take the hexar and nothing else. get out there and get close.
2/ do not, repeat DO NOT even think of taking pictures of any gov't buildings. as a matter of fact don't even take a camera near one. HEADACHES!!!
3/ in my opinion the best way to get comfortable pictures of the locals is to engage them. speak with them, ask questions, smile, laugh and wipe the look of pity permanently from your face.
4/ be very, very aware that jordan and morrocco are very different places. i don't mean this as a snipe, just a fact. algeria, libya and tunisia are all right next door'ish and they are all very, very different places. morrocco is quite accustomed to and dependent on tourists with camera's. the populous knows this.
5/ i personally don't agree with the "pocket full of coins" idea. realize this is only my opinion and experience. the hardest thing you will have to deal with is people trying to convince you to buy something... be it their good's or dubious service. you absolutely MUST learn to be polite but firm. you are a mark until your actions dictate otherwise. to pass out any coins of any kind will instantly make a you a very obvious mark and word will travel fast. photo's for coins will illicit "photo's for coins" if you know what i mean.
6/ avoid the tourist traps. avoid the tourist traps, avoid... well you get the point.
7/ be very cautious of photographing women alone. best to just not do it. especially as a tourist with no "friends" in the community. it will buy you as much trouble as photographing gov't buildings.
anyhow, blah blah blah. relax, talk to people and take their photo. again, i will be in the "neighbourhood" many times this year so drop me a line if you care to chat more!
i think jon claremont has been in and out of the area as well, he may have some useful advice if needed.
cheers
john
emraphoto
Veteran
8/ if you're not a practicing muslim mind your own buis when it comes to prayer time. (read as: don't photograph folks praying)
Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
emraphoto said:
That's very important indeed.
emraphoto said:
So true.
Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
raid said:
Raid, I know that Saudian are pretty sensitive when it comes to photography. I would certainly not take photos of women and people praying, unless it's Hadj.
See Monz Ahmed's pictures.
Best,
Marc
wgerrard
Veteran
emraphoto said:
You're right, of course, John. I intended to convey the notion that if you want a pic of someone who demands money, be prepared to pay. However, a street full of characters who see that transaction will now be chasing you down as an easy mark.
emraphoto
Veteran
i agree
i cannot stress enough... do not take pictures of gov't anything, do not take pictures of women alone, if you are not a practicing muslim then just mind your own buis. (most mosques will have aloted times for non-muslims to view the mosque itself, if it happens to interest you.)
if you follow those three rules you'll be fine...
i look forward to seeing the photogrpah's!
i cannot stress enough... do not take pictures of gov't anything, do not take pictures of women alone, if you are not a practicing muslim then just mind your own buis. (most mosques will have aloted times for non-muslims to view the mosque itself, if it happens to interest you.)
if you follow those three rules you'll be fine...
i look forward to seeing the photogrpah's!
Pablito
coco frío
stefan_dinu said:
But there are two sides to everything. I am finishing up now a book of my photographs to be published in 2008 and one of the main themes is religion. There are many photos of people praying, taken in places of worship of various western and non-western belief systems. As part of the working process, I invested a lot of time talking to folks and trying to understand the specifics of their faith. I did not photograph unless I felt I was welcomed into the community of worship. In fact, the act of photographing itself became a sort of recognition and worship. I understood this and my subjects understood this.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Do you speak French?
Philipp
Philipp
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
I like to go into the mosque just before Friday prayers (shoes off and wash feet), then lose myself in the surrounding streets during prayers, and return for communal lunch at the mosque later.
emraphoto
Veteran
wgerrard said:
people demanding money will be a very, very prevelant issue for the first day or two. i have found that giving them money is the worst thing you can do bill. that being said you will have to be very firm and you will also (and the most trying) have to be very polite whilst doing it.
try very hard to engage the people you are going to photograph. if you wander the local medina snapping away you are going to have a very frustrating and probably dissapointing experience. you WILL BE accosted plain and simple. learn to deal with it quickly.
on the other hand, if you saddle on up to the local merchant at the cafe and stike up a conversation... don't be suprised if you're invited to dinner. i really believe this type of approach will lend to a far more satisfying photo oppurtunity and trip!
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