Bill58
Native Texan
You gotta respect anybody who wanders around Detroit w/ a camera.....and their life in their own hands. I sure as hell wouldn't do it.
Hey Jamie,
So I wanted to be in bed an hour ago, but I thought I might actually defend those guys. You can safely disregard everything I say and walk away from this thinking this has to be some sort of hyped hoax - yet, you could believe me when I say there's a whole new world to be discovered you might actually appreciate.
First of all I'd separate - you can't look at this kind of photography the same way you look at Nachtweys or Pellegrins work.
What's typically promoted and loved on this website is the "Decisive Moment". It's all about capturing something right then and there, something that only happens once - in a split second. This - Meffre and Marchand - is not about the Decisive Moment. It's the exact opposite. Judging them the same way you judge other photography wouldn't do their work justice.
Yet, there are things to appreciate. For example take how beautifully 'build' the images are - compositionally near perfection (for me, that is). The angle, the perspective, the distortion and framing - everything has been thought through to the greatest extent. I have a hard time coming up with any way their shots could have been improved.
Take a second, scan the frame from corner to corner; really look at the picture. We're used to just take a quick look and move on, this doesn't work here. It's all in the detail.
Looking at this kind of photography on a monitor at home doesn't make much sense either; but before giving up on this all together I'd recommend checking out similar photographers in a museum. Looking at 8x10 enlarged to cover a wall is a stunning experience.
There's a lot to be said about this kind of photography, I'd recommend reading up on the Bechers, the Düsseldorfer Photo School and maybe check out people like Gursky, Stuth, Ruff, Höfer, the Bechers themselves, Sternfeld, Epstein, and even people like Crewdson.
It does take time though. Those photographers probably don't obey the standards you set for photography; they're different, and still very amazing. Maybe it'd be easier to come from architecture or painting than from photography, or what 'we' call photography.
Cheers, martin
//EDIT: Hey Jamie, please give me your thoughts on this, even if you completely disagree. I'm actually curious.
The Detroit series photos don't do much for me. If they are large format, then my opinion is that either the processing for web or the development wasn't very good. Maybe prints on paper would change my opinion.
I really liked the first half or so of the slideshow from the Time site. Yes, urban decay has been done, done again, and done again and again. And most subjects we see shot today, even posted on (god forbid) RFF HAS ALREADY BEEN SHOT.
Ok, Im over it, Im not going to make a list of every subject/theme/graphic anybody has already shot since the invention of the camera, and rack my brain trying to figure out what has not been shot, just so I can shoot something for purposes of novelty, especially if its just to get some attention or accolade. Im simply going to shoot what I want to shoot, and perhaps thats what these French fellows have done.
Now if NYC or Chicago or Paris or Tokyo or any other major metropolitan area with a rich history went belly up tomorrow, then damn straight fotogs would be shooting the hell out of the place. Will they be condemned b/c they are re-shooting urban decay? Why, b/c "its been done before"?! I dont think they would be condemned, given that they are beautifully shot fotos.
And to me, thats part of the beauty of fotography--> capturing a moment in time: one moment of a string of several infinitessimal momemts, one after the other, after the other. Whether its Bresson's "decisive moment", Jeff Walls decisive moment, Nan Goldins' decisive moment, or these French dudes decisive moment: its simply a moment in time that has been captured in the context of history, our human history: either very intimate moments amongst few individuals or moments that capture a larger audience as in these Detroit City shots.
Anyway, just a few thoughts, til tomorrow all..........
I was born in Detroit, many years back, and lived in the metro Detroit area until the late 1970's. I still return many times a year to visit family. No doubt these photos accurately capture part of the city that's in decline but they also give the unfortunate impression that the entire city is as depicted in the photographs. It is not. Like any big city, there are parts that have seen their better days but there are also parts that are doing relatively well. Detroit is hardly the city it was back in 1950 when about 2 million folks lived there, but it isn't a ghost town either.
Jim B.
As for your last comment about the ''decisive moment''. I think you really misunderstood Bresson's concept of a ''decisive moment''. Not every photograph has a ''decisive moment'' just simply because it depicts a moment in time. ''Decisive moment'' means that the moment captured in a photo is decisive in so far as the image would have turned out completely different had the photographer not clicked the shutter in that precise moment. In this vain I think one can really not speak of a decisive moment in Jeff Wall's work.
Figured I would pass this long while a thread is on the subject of Detroit- this is a friend of a friend who shot several times for a photo project in Detroit. I believe it's all on tri-x using a Holga:
http://www.ianwillms.com/detroit.html
Thanks for all the input everyone, makes for a discussion rather than everyone concurring with one another.
I do understand Bresson's concept of a "decisive moment", I was simply expanding its definition to correlate with photography in general, and ways of reinterpreting "decisive moments" in other fotog's work. And defining Bresson as a "decisive moment" photographer is a gross oversimplification: it just happens to be what he is famous for, but he had long career in photography where all of his work is not "decisive moment" fotography, it just happens to be his claim to fame.
In the same vein, Jeff Wall has had a long career, and I would not typecast his entire set of works to a narrow vision, technique, or theme. Again, I was reinterpreting the concept of a "decisive moment" as applied to others' work; Regarding Jeff Wall, his image of Milk (1984) certainly speaks of a particular moment, does it not? (link for Milk here at http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...all+photography+milk&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
In any case, just wanted to clarify so as to avoid misinterpretations.
Again, thanks for the discussion.
I like the look of prosperous 1917 Detroit.
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IMO the "best" coverage and most involved coverage is from a Detroit resident who has a series of blogs named "sweet juniper" he covers everyday life and also the fabric of Detroit. It's an honest and fair presentation of the good and bad of Detroit. He's a hell of a photographer too. This site is just part of his entire work. You can work backwards to his other material.
http://www.sweetjuniperphoto.com/search/label/detroit