[unframed] from the hip/chest

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Anyone have any tips? I recall having a discussion with my father about it a few years ago, after getting home and having a little "who took the best shot" competition (I lost). He had a bunch of really good ones from waist/chest height that he said he took from the hip. When I asked him about technique, he said "I don't know, I just got pretty good at it..."

So I thought I'd pose the question to RFF. First off, is shooting from the hip/not composing through SLR or RF viewfinder something that you're either naturally good at or bad at? I'm thinking it's not, and that it's much more a skill that can be improved with practice. Problem is, film is expensive.

So would my best bet be just going out and taking tons of shots, waiting the X days to get them developed, and then trying to work on my technique further? That would be best for muscle-memory, since it would be the cameras I predominantly use. However, from-the-hip is inherently a frame-burner technique, so even if you're really good, my guess is the number of throw-away shots for a from-the-hip shooter is going to be way higher than someone seriously composing...

I've got a D90 and a D-Lux, as well, which would definitely increase the practice time/direct results "efficiency" quotient, but as they're vastly different physically (that and some lenses are quite different), so is that something that wouldn't port very well from large-ish dSLR/tiny P&S to my preferred film RF IIIc/M4-P configuration.

Who's got any thoughts/experience?
 
I wouldn't try to learn hip shooting with a film camera unless I was very rich. I've now done it a bit with a digital and a 28mm equivalent lens, and even with such a wide lens - you'll miss a lot (not to mention it can be hard to get an adequately fast shutter speed at f8 in winter in my palce of residence). You can count on there being a LOT of missed shots. If you could do it from the chest instead (especially with an electronic release), this would make the framing much easier. Please note - this all depends on how secretive you intend to be ... if you don't mind the potential for people seeing you twist the camera in your hand such as the lens points more directly at them etc, you will receive more keepers than I do.
 
You're right - plenty of discards when hip shooting. So why the fascination? Just wondering.
The way to get decent images would be to stay with one focal length and familiarize yourself with it's field of view. This will allow you to have an idea where things are positioned in your frame when not shooting through the VF.
 
probably more than anything else, it's for either getting interesting ("fresh") perspectives when it's otherwise impractical to do so, or for quick grab shots like while on the subway, where the atmosphere seemingly shatters if you bring a camera to your eye (bear in mind, the Seoul subway is likely quite a bit different from something like in NYC or Boston). An example of the former would be for young kid eye-level without attracting the ire of the parents (being a young white guy here in Korea, I'm generally treated like a circus monkey/zoo animal before they find out I'm fluent in Korean, though on a subway, it's sometimes impractical to reveal that)
 
For me, the ideal FL is 25mm, but 28mm works OK as well. Use Tri X ( or Arista Premium 400) at EI 500, and try to keep f8-f11 in good light, to freeze action. If possible, use a point and shoot like ricoh GR1, it is easy to make it disappear in your hand. Prefocus at 2-2.5 meters or at infinity, if you are ok with some foreground unsharpness. Don't worry about the cost of learning - you will get better after a few rolls, and the foregiveness of a B&W film like Tri X is fundamental.
 
Certainly digest any tips given you. But ultimately it will require you to experiment (practice) on your own for the results that give you what you want.
 
It appears digital would be ideal for a practice camera. You could shoot and delete to your hearts content. For a film point and shoot camera the Yashica T4 Super (T5) has a chest/waist level reflex finder called Super Scope. Just look down and pretend to fiddle with the camera and no one suspects. You can even turn it up to 90 degrees and really throw them off. Granted these are not cheap, but may be the ultimate for this type shooting.
 
I ditto the suggestion of the Yashica T4/5 Super. There's also the idea of a half-frame camera like an Olympus Pen (or even plastic point-and-shoot like the Superheadz or the Lomo half-frame), the idea being that you would have twice the frames per roll of film with which to practice.

Another thing to think about is getting one of those cube shaped bubble levels that are made to fit in the hot shoe, as an aid to keeping the camera level to the horizon without having to peer through the VF.

-Joe
 
just to veer a tiny bit OT, if the thought is 'unobtrusiveness' vs 'critical moment', ive found subjects get much less nervous if im using a waist level finder vs standard vf. for example my ricoh tls 401 has a built in optional wlf and people seem to think youre just fiddling with the cam vs actually taking a picture. i do the same with the evf on my ep2 which is articulable. so perhaps one possible answer is a 90 degree attachment...
 
I think I'm terrible at it since my keeper rate is extremely low. I have a few shots of children taken on an RF with a wide angle from waist level that are worthwhile, that's it.

I prefer to decide the composition and lighting angle, take a stationary position at the required height, and wait for the shot. Hip shooting doesn't really match my temperament. It feels manic somehow.
 
I think hip shooting is an important technique... First, the wider the lens the easier it is, but the closer your have to be to your subject. Second, it is most helpful to have a lens with a clearly marked depth of field scale. Third, you should know your focal length by heart. In other words, you should have a pretty good idea what your composition is going to look like in your minds eye as you shoot from the hip.

I mostly hip shoot with my Nikon 20 mm f/4.0 AIS. With that lens, I need not even put the camera to my eye because I know if I can see it, its in the frame. Also, sometimes I interact with the subject with a comment or look while simultaneously shooting their picture.

Here are some examples of shots from the hip. As for the keeper rate with the 20 mm its very high it just depends if the composition is actually interesting or not. There is one example in here with a 50 mm of a boy in guatemala. I would not have been able to get a picture without a good hip shot technique because every time I brought the camera to my eye the boys would look away...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28732091@N06/5877324798/sizes/l/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28732091@N06/5876757479/sizes/l/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28732091@N06/4876789719/sizes/l/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28732091@N06/4778449244/sizes/l/in/photostream/

Hope that helps. Just try it and start with a wide angle!
 
rbelyell said:
just to veer a tiny bit OT, if the thought is 'unobtrusiveness' vs 'critical moment', ive found subjects get much less nervous if im using a waist level finder vs standard vf. for example my ricoh tls 401 has a built in optional wlf and people seem to think youre just fiddling with the cam vs actually taking a picture. i do the same with the evf on my ep2 which is articulable. so perhaps one possible answer is a 90 degree attachment...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wish I could find something like that for my Zeiss Ikon. Maybe my saved search on evil bay will one day reveal something that's not too insanely expensive.
 
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