Unpleasant Street Encounter at Dark Evening

R

ruben

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Nothing dramatic yet it reminded me something to take into account.

This evening I was outside the central bus station, near a bus stop, an area fairly crowded. I had my ISO 200 Kiev with mounted flash. I made a frame at some close distance of a couple, and soon afterwards of a little girl entering a nearby shop. No problem.

But then, out of nowhere appears a tall teenager and asks me "why are you photographing me?" with an ugly look. I answered I didn't. Since he stood nearby at the bus stop, I confidently called him back with my hand, to reassure him I didn't. "I saw your flash" he said. "Well, I don't know what you saw, but I didn't" I said and that was the end.

What really happened, I assume, is that the Kievs have a problem when flash mounted. After you fire, you should wind quickly, because if the flash re-charges before you fully wind it will fire again. The guy may have seen this false flash firing.

Ok, all the above are small penauts. What I reminded afterwards, and find of interest to all of us, was a book I read long long time ago, by a Brittish photojournalist, strongly recommending not going to demonstrations with your camera hanging from your neck, since you will be providing your enemy with a weapon to strangle you.

Interesting, not ? The following will be even more.

Instead of that, he recommended to wrist your strap around your hand, leaving some space between the camera and your hand, in order to be able to hit with the camera the head of your attacker. Like those middle agge balls chained to a stick.

BTW, for the task, a good wrist leaving some 20 cm free between the hand and the camera, will make your camera into a wonderfull weapon. Just in case.

Cheers,
Ruben

PS
One score for Kievs against Contaxes....:angel:
 
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Well, maybe if I'm using one of the Canon QL17's you can buy for $50 or so. I'm not sure I'd try this with a Leica or a Contax...

As you said, maybe there is something to be said for FSU's, or even an Argus C3...
 
I always use a wrist strap partially for this reason, a nice Fed 2 or GSN to the head would be quite effective i think.
 
I have considered my M7 with the TA Rapidwinder and RapidGrip to be a solid, available weapon if I ever need to get someone's attention with a bash to the head or face.

Nope it ever comes to that, of course, but this combo of hardware has significant mass.
 
Don't mean to be the fly in the ointment here, but if you end up whacking someone with your camera and seriously hurting them (regardless of how threatening they were to provoke you, and IF they had no weapon and only armed with a menacing line, like "give me your camera!") what happens if HE decides to press charges against YOU for assault with a.... ?
 
pesphoto said:
I always use a wrist strap partially for this reason, a nice Fed 2 or GSN to the head would be quite effective i think.
Click to expand...

Absolutely unrelated to the possibilty of dangerous encounters, I switched from strap to wrist, since a wrist is much more conspicous than the mass of strap wristed around your hand.

I finded it the most comfortable to engage the wrist from my left hand, leaving my working hand free for everything.

Not anymore. From now the wrist goes to the right hand.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
the live shutter for flash was something the early chrome dial Nikon S2 also had.
a pain in the arsino.
you should have told that teen that you mistook him for a young Marty Feldman ;-))
 
saxshooter said:
Don't mean to be the fly in the ointment here, but if you end up whacking someone with your camera and seriously hurting them (regardless of how threatening they were to provoke you, and IF they had no weapon and only armed with a menacing line, like "give me your camera!") what happens if HE decides to press charges against YOU for assault with a.... ?
Click to expand...


These days in Israel, there are lots of reports about people using knives and killing the most stupid disputes with victyms along.

You are right, in pointing that everyone of us should asess his own temper before preparing himself to kill.

As for myself, in a one to one encounter I would not hit unless a knive is shown, in whose case I will try to be the first to hit. I am very much aware that a Kiev blow on your head is a fatal one.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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You guys are a brave bunch. If a guy comes up to me with a knife and demands my camera, he can have it. I'm not trained in hand to hand combat. Even if I did clock the guy with my camera, by some twist of justice I do not feel like dealing with a lawsuit or sitting in jail for a night. NOT WORTH IT.

Then again, I try not to find myself in a sketchy alleyway, or "flaunting" seemingly valuable equipment. I believe in not inviting trouble.
 
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saxshooter said:
Don't mean to be the fly in the ointment here, but if you end up whacking someone with your camera and seriously hurting them (regardless of how threatening they were to provoke you, and IF they had no weapon and only armed with a menacing line, like "give me your camera!") what happens if HE decides to press charges against YOU for assault with a.... ?
Click to expand...

I would think it would depend on the general circumstances, available witnesses, and the law where you were. So ahead of time, you need to decide what is best; take a chance with the law or a law-breaker who may not only steal, but decide to hurt you in the process. One is allowed self defense, and often, a greater degree of force in defending oneself.

I remember in Korea many years ago, on an American post, one GI was confronted by another who wanted to commit robbery. After the victim's camera was forcefully swung up to the side of the robber's head, he changed his mind and ran away as quickly as he could, complaining about pain. I don't know how the camera faired, but the robber sure didn't do well. At Ft Campbell some years ago, a man was being chased by a man with robbery on his mind. When the victim realized he wasn't going to outrun his attacker, he suddenly turned and swung his fist with all his might. The would-be attacker ran away holding his jaw and complaining about the pain.

While these two instances show action can be better than passivity, I think a better question is, can you be sure you will deter the attacker rather than making him very mad and more likely to cause harm?
 
the deadliest 35mm camera is a Canon VT or VIT with the wind trigger extended.
both these cameras have nice heft and are boffo street shooters to boot.
 
I've also switched from neck to wrist. Even when I have a neck strap on one of my cameras, I wrap it around my wrist. I've not given it much thought, but I probably would not hesitate to defend myself with my cameras if it came to that. If I have to swing my M4-P or my M7 in self-defense, I pity anyone who ends up on the receiving end of either.

.
 
oftheherd said:
I think a better question is, can you be sure you will deter the attacker rather than making him very mad and more likely to cause harm?
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Exactly. For me personally, it is not worth that risk. I love my life and my healthy physical condition (just think of the ramifications of being beaten/attacked and left seriously physically challenged -- death would be easier!)

And besides, I would think if someone wants to mug you, he only wants your valuables and a quick getaway.

But if your attacker is intent on BOTH hurting you and taking your stuff, then you are out of luck. :(

So I stick with my philosophy. Be aware of my surroundings and don't invite trouble. Knock on wood, I am doing fine.
 
Saxshooter, my fellow RFF member, you are escaping to accept the potential possibility that just by mistake, out of nowhere, someone will jump over you to kill you. Nothing less than to kill you.

It may be a drug dealer that thinks you belong to the police and photographed him, or a CIA sub extra outside uncover discover branch, or a drunk, or whatever.

I wouldn't start to be afraid to show my camera on the streets anymore, and I ever had taken a great care where I point my camera to. But the incident today tought me something new in the photoraphic street arena: It is not enough to be a carefull driver to avoid a collusion, it is not up to you only.

Cheers,
Ruben

BTW, at these very moments felix5616 is advertizing at our front page a Leica M3 Single Stroke
 
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saxshooter said:
You guys are a brave bunch. If a guy comes up to me with a knife and demands my camera, he can have it. I'm not trained in hand to hand combat. Even if I did clock the guy with my camera, by some twist of justice I do not feel like dealing with a lawsuit or sitting in jail for a night. NOT WORTH IT.

Then again, I try not to find myself in a sketchy alleyway, or "flaunting" seemingly valuable equipment. I believe in not inviting trouble.
Click to expand...


Hey, its just fun to fantasize, in reality i can buy anohter fed 2 if need be. If it was a M6 it might be another story.
Oh...and he could press charges, but if he's coming after me first it's all in self defense.....yes? Meet my little camera.......
 
"can you be sure you will deter the attacker rather than making him very mad and more likely to cause harm?"

The fact is, nothing is certain except that tame submission encourages the perpetration of more attacks. Indeed, the argument can be made that failing to resist evil is itself evil.
 
Possibly irrelevant by this stage in the discussion, but the FED-2 has a similar live shutter which will fire a connected flash while film is being advanced.

Clarence
 
I think the main points here are:

Be careful everyone, and

Be grateful that that this incident never escalated. I for one would'nt want anything to happen to dear Ruben.
 
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