Unpleasant Street Encounter at Dark Evening

Shooting with a flash on the street at night? I cannot think of a better way to draw attention to yourself, nor have almost anyone nearby think you just shot their photo.

It's nothing I'd ever do near a bus station in my city....
 
Alas hotheaded teens acting tough with something to prove are a worldwide problem. There is one part of Toronto, if I am street shooting, I am wearing steel toed workboots and packing a Nikkormat Ftn. Oh and shoot with high speed film, flash just draws attention to yourself.
 
>But then, out of nowhere appears a tall teenager and asks me "why are you >photographing me?" with an ugly look. I answered I didn't. Since he stood nearby at >the bus stop, I confidently called him back with my hand, to reassure him I didn't. "I >saw your flash" he said. "Well, I don't know what you saw, but I didn't" I said and that

Once in Moscow, some youngster tried to break my FED-5c and tried to hit me into the head with stone(!), for photographing him with his girlfriend. Sad but true - I didn't photographing him at all.. I just looked into the finder to check the exposure , with camera pointed towards the pair. People are ugly there, so I'd advise to practice street photo somewhere in the West, where people generally more friendly.
Anyway, I'd recommend everybody this article:
http://www.prime-junta.net/pont/How_to/hd_Lesson_3/_Shoot_the_Street.html
http://www.prime-junta.net/pont/Pon..._Is_For_Wimps/a_Telephoto_Is_For_Cowards.html
 
minoltist7 said:
>.... People are ugly there, so I'd advise to practice street photo somewhere in the West, where people generally more friendly.....

So come to Israel !

:D :D :D
 
rich815 said:
Shooting with a flash on the street at night? I cannot think of a better way to draw attention to yourself, nor have almost anyone nearby think you just shot their photo.

It's nothing I'd ever do near a bus station in my city....

In my opinion, violent or potentially violent reactions towards a street photographer has nothing to do with night, nor flash, or bus stations.

In my view it is related with a specific individual around, i,e, a dangerous subject misinterpreting you for his very good rational or irrational reasons. By nature, common people aren't violent. Dangerous crime related exceptions are.

Photojournalists know it to fine grain. Crime of every sort, including state crime, needs darkness to survive. Darkness is not equal to night light, but to secrecy. A camera around is the worst enemy of secrecy.

As for photography unrelated knife (thank you Frank) violence, it too has nothing to do with daylight or night.

Now, let's come back to our common sense. Nothing happened to me, and out of an accidental flash a teenager protested. I just wanted to refresh our minds to the possibility one day we face a surprise.

It is not going to happen to each of us. Just let's be psychologically aware, both of the possibility and of our answer. With a good old camera at hand we are not defenseless.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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saxshooter said:
Don't mean to be the fly in the ointment here, but if you end up whacking someone with your camera and seriously hurting them (regardless of how threatening they were to provoke you, and IF they had no weapon and only armed with a menacing line, like "give me your camera!") what happens if HE decides to press charges against YOU for assault with a.... ?

Best hit him twice, then.
 
ruben said:
In my opinion, violent or potentially violent reactions towards a street photographer has nothing to do with night, nor flash, or bus stations.

No, of course not. But not attracting attention to yourself in the first place is a good strong first step to avoiding potentially violent reactions from those who do not like having their photos taken or potentially having their photos taken! :)
 
I think Gordy needs to give us a wrist strap with double strength leather and a heavy duty slip ring ... and market it as the "Attack Strap!" I'd be worried about the inertia of swinging the camera really hard overcoming the resistance of the slip ring and having my camera fly off an injure an innocent bystander! :angel:
 
For self defense, I'd vote for an Argus C3 (lots of nice sharp edges and very solid construction) or a Kodak Medalist (obvious if you've ever picked one up).

I hear about a lot of cameras having a bayonet mount, but can any of them actually mount a bayonet? :rolleyes:
 
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Start using a Speed Graphic ... ;)

"My favorite "4x5" story involved Francis "Nig" Miller, a LIFE photographer in the 50s and 60s, who I met when he came to Salt Lake City for a day, following Lady Bird Johnson. Miller was complaining about his chestful of Nikons, and said, in a poetic moment "The trouble with these damn Nikons is, you hit someone with it, they go down but they get right back up." He paused for a minute, then almost smiled and allowed "Now, with a Speed Graphic, you hit somebody, they're gonna stay DOWN!" I haven't had to whack anyone with mine yet, but it's reassuring to know that if I have to, at least the guy won't be getting up soon."

David Burnett http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0402/dis_burnett.html

William
 
"These days in Israel, there are lots of reports about people using knives and killing the most stupid disputes with victyms along. "
that's a very good point and don't forget it. i spent many. many years shooting in the downtown eastside of vancouver, canada (it also happened to be my home) and without getting into too much of a pissing contest i'll say it's sketchy down there. real sketchy... in that time i learnt a few things and the most important was no matter what, walk away. avoid any sort of conflict because conflict changes people... people panic and become very dangerous. i have seen people get clocked by all sort of large, solid objects (including police batons) and not even be fazed. i have seen weapons appear out of thin air and i've seen people get really hurt.
i used to carry a contax 159mm with the power winder and always boasted i could knock someone senseless with it. it's only now that i shutter (play on words)... that was a very stupid and dangerous way of thinking. keep your head up, eye's open and know when to walk away... quickly.
avoid conflict at all costs.
try and have fun too
cheers
john
 
patrickjames said:
In spite of the fact that I am pretty big and look pretty mean (shaved head, goatee), I prefer to use my strongest weapon in these situations--

my mind.

Patrick

OK Mr. Spock. :) :) Live long and prosper. :) I'm sure your mind will hand over control at some point to the 'fight or flight' impulse, at least you better hope that occurs. ;) otherwise, you might be trying to apply reason and common sense against an opponent who has already abandoned both in the hope that he will relieve you of your possessions and God forbid worse. :) In some situations, exhibiting the willingness to defend oneself is the greatest deterrent. Your mind can help you assess that situation, but connecting with your attacker by swinging an M4-P covered in a Luigi case, and loaded with Tri-X can make quite an impression.



.
 
I agree with in general with Jason Sprenger. There's no guarantee of safety, no matter what you do, and no matter how you might respond to a threat. Would any of us give up street photography because of the possibility that someone may get upset, or threaten us? I certainly hope not.

That doesn't mean we don't "manage the threat" by altering certain behaviors.
 
MikeL said:
Stay low, keep moving, and when cornered, kick for the balls.

I've seen men shake that off, and women (Heaven forbid, but they can be agressors too) aren't so endowed. Take out a knee. If they can't stand it's very hard to fight or chase you.

But always first try to avoid a confrontation.
 
Some tricks that sound easy (like a kick in the balls), can be hard to pull off when you are charged with adrenaline and faced with real, aware opponent.

Before bashing someone's head with your camera, think how good you are in fight in general. If you never had a serious fight before, to run away might be a better idea.
 
Haven't yet encountered a really harmful situation shooting on streets in my country, God forbid, but I personally consider the most vulnerable situation when yuo're shooting along with your dear aside of you (be it your wife, girlfriend, kids or whomever you really care for). That is you most vulnarable point, not your camera or even yourself.
That is why would I plan going shooting to somewhere potentially not safe, I'd never go with my family, but rather (if not alone) prefer a good friend (who is also photo geek of course) in whom I can trust.
Some time ago I read an excellent book on cerain Mossad operations and there was a chapter talking about their agents preparations and training (probaly relevant for other intelligence services in other countries):
When you're confronted (robbery) - give him readily you watch, you wallet, you shirt but try to avoid any complication by your resistance. Don't try to get faster then the bullet or smarter then the knife at your neck, hide your not always reasonable braveness deep in your soul.
However, when it comes to a real danger, you see your nice behavior isn't going to stop the offender or his/their real threat is your dear - then act as quickly as you can and in most harmful way you can. If you pull up you gun - for only one and single reason - shoot to kill, do not attempt to play just to try to frighten up the offender - he may loose control over his nerves and just shot and use his knife (when you're not prepared to use your weapon to tis full potential).
If you pull out your knife/cane - do accept you will use it.
An ordinary men on the street is always unprepared to the situation unlike the criminal who knows exactly what he is going to do and doesn't care the laws, so pshychologically the criminal always wins out at the first moments of the affair. Hence, your only sane benefit is to try to keep the things smooth if that is possible to get away safe, or otherwise, try to surprise the offender by acting first in your full strenth so that his loses his desire to commit what hi intended, and then, after the situation is under control - you may consider the legal proceedings (but first a big thank you God you're safe and in good health as well as you dear)

Mind you, that kind of behavior was/is recomended even for the people who are probably much more prepared mentally and physically for potentially challenging situations then an ordinary person (the majority on the forum, I guess), so I guess this is something to consider for us as well...
 
patrickjames said:
In spite of the fact that I am pretty big and look pretty mean (shaved head, goatee), I prefer to use my strongest weapon in these situations--

my mind.

Patrick

DAMN RIGHT!
 
Dear Friends,
Some of us are in this thread are playing like kids with their own life.

Of course that dangerous sites are to be avoided. Of course we must be polite. Of course that if we can run away, better we run away. Of course....etc. etc.

But you are hiding from your minds the eventual possibility you may be TRAPPED. That the situation will go out of YOUR initiative or control. And then what ?

A knife may be shown within fractiond of second with the people around frozen by fear at the first minutes. Don't play with your own life. Like Alexz says above when your mind and instintc tells you - strike first.

But if you dellude yourself you allways will have a gate away of danger, you are already defeated at this precise moment. Be responsible towards your own life ! No one here is advising to pour our frustration for the disapparition of the Random Gallery, with Kiev blows at pedestrians.

Whenever you are at the streets with a camera, you are carrying a device that can be correctly assesed by other individuals as a danger, insult, violation of the own gorilla ego, police evidence, etc. etc.

We are to be cautious, but when driving a car, avoiding collusions is not only upon you.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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