Upcoming Short Trip to China:

[raid]

I am exited about an upcoming one-week trip to China coming June. It seems that there is an uncountable number of threads online with a title ""which camera gear ...." and so on. Each overseas trip makes me consider the obvious question: "is an SLR more useful/practical or a rangefinder camera?".
I have a more complete set of lenses and very functional SLR cameras, but the weight of the equipment seems to be far greater than the corresponding weight of the rangefinder gear. This time, I am determined to take only my rangefinder equipment since there will plenty of walking each day. My Chinese colleague and friend reminds me constantly that distances will be rather great for daily walks, so I will try to limit my gear to what is essential and also useful.
The good thing is that I have plenty of gear and I am not complaining.
Most likely, I will take along the following:

Canon P + Bessa T + Fuji Natura

35mm/1.8 (Canon)
50mm/2.0 (Nikkor)
90mm/2.8 (Leitz)


The above set looks to be sufficient while still being reasonable for carrying around. Another variation would be to replace the P&S Natura with the 24mm/1.9 lens with the CV 25mm/4 lens for manual control.

The next factor is choice of film. My wife does not like B&W as it is done these days (that's what she tells me). She looks at old photos we have from the 40's and 50's, and she concludes that B&W prints done these days don't seem to have the purity of whites and blacks as the old photos still do.

Many people here insist on B&W as the only acceptable medium for artistic photos. :bang: I like both; B&W and Color.

Isn't this a fun hobby to have!

 

[RML]

Well, an SLR set would be more versatile but heavier as well.

Your rf selection seems spot on to me.

Enjoy your stay!

 

[StuartR]

Your wife might be more upset with the printing paper -- RC versus Fiber -- than with the modern films. Fiber prints just look better. There are some great papers out there (Bergger, Forte etc) that you will never experience unless you print for yourself.

In any case, I think you kit sounds excellent: all your lenses are pretty fast, the lenses and cameras are small and light, and they perform well. That you have a 24, 35, 50, 90 spread is great -- that is all you really need for most situations. Since it is summer, you will have more light during the day and you have fast lenses, so I think you could get away with mostly ISO 100 speed films. I like E100G or Provia 100F for general use slide films. They have nice natural, reasonably saturated colors and very very fine grain. Both have nice skin tones. For black and white, you could include a flexible, pushable ISO 400 film like Tri-X, Neopan 400 or Hp5+. Grain is generally more acceptable in black and white, so 400 looks fine. The advantage to these films is that they push easily to 800 or 1600, so if you need a high ISO you have it. Anyway, that would be my advice.

 

[raid]

I also suspected that the use of Fiber print paper results in more classy looking B&W prints.
I need to make up my mind about using slide film or not since Qualex is now handled by Clark Photo Labs, and it shows. I may have to use a lab without using any of the Qualex film mailers that I have been used to fo so many years with Kodak.

I like the choice of lenses to cover me for most situations. Thanks to both of you for your input.

 

[RicardoD]

Raid,

In a roundabout way my last business trip to China is what pushed me into Rangefinder and film. I guess I'm a bit shy and just didn't have the guts to whipout my Canon dSLR and start street shooting. I wanted something smaller and more discrete. I then found myself simply leaving my dSLR back in the hotel and eventually I came home depressed after reviewing the meager amount of photos I took and that I couldn't share the more interesting things I saw with my wife.

Where I travel is not the typical touristy places but rather I go to the heart of the economic tiger, where I wish I could have captured for my wife the sense of the country on the move. I think B&W would have worked beautifully there.

Keep it simple and light, which should be easy with the choices you have, and please share upon your return.

 

[raid]

Ricardo,
Of course, I will post many photos here. I enjoy sharing such events with other photographers. I am not shy at all when it comes to street photography. Many years ago, I did a lot of late night street photography in New Orleans.

I sometimes take along a very small camera that is meant for discrete street photography. This trip, it will be the Fuji Natura Black with the 24mm/1.9 lens. If loaded with ASA400 film, it should pick fast shutter speeds [hopefully]. I used to use a Minox GT 35mm camera and I would pre-focus to 4 meters and shoot away. I got many nice looking photos that way.

I need to make up my mind regarding B&W film and/or color film. If color film, then will it be slide film for more control or negative film for less expense and quicker turn around.

 

[FrankS]

Raid, in order to choose which film type, you need to decide what your end goal is for your images. If you plan to print digitally, then colour neg film is the most versitile since it can be converted to B+W if desired. If you plan to print traditionally then real B+W film will get the msot out of your images. Do you print your own B+W? Since I do, I would take one camera with B+W, the other with colour neg. I wouldn't use slide film unless my end goal is slides for projection.
And this only saves a few grams, but the J3 lens is both faster and lighter than the Nikkor 50mm. Have a great trip!

 

[StuartR]

I would never go on a trip and not take a bunch of slide film and traditional black and white film, but that's just me. I don't care for color negative film and will only use it when I have to. It's my opinion that slide film just looks better, particularly if you are scanning. The only scanner that I have found that can get great results out of negative film is the Imacon 646...

Anyway, that's just me, offering a different voice from Frank. You have to make your choice on your own. I would suggest not basing your decision on the expense unless you really have to though. How often are you going to get a chance to visit China? Bring the best stuff you can....

 

[FrankS]

I'm almost exclusively B+W and I don't own a film scanner yet, so Stuart's advice should be taken over mine on this topic.

 

[Avotius]

well after livign and shooting in china for the last two years I would recomend bw film but thats because this city im in is covered in an eternal polution fog. Color film works out in some places but you will want it to be high saturation especialy if you are gona take any photos that have trees in them, the trees here are not green as much as they are grey...

but sometimes that low saturation color film works too, I used reala here for a while but opted for something a little more vibrant because of all the grey

 

[raid]

I get better scans from slides too, but I am not happy with the labs doing the E-6 work. Since I do not develop B&W film or print it myself, I may not get out B&W film as much as people who actually do their own developing and printing.

The point Frank made on the 50mm lens is well taken and I may use in place of the heavy Nikkor 5cm/2 the lighter and faster J-3 50mm/1.5 lens. I think, it proved itself in my basic lens tests.

I have plenty of Velvia 50 film still in the refrigerator. This film may be the best for color film in China, based on what I am reading about fog and pollution levels there.

My trip is planned for June 10-June 19. I am planning to shoot and shoot until my wife gets mad at me for doing so.

I am thinking about what I could do if I take along instead my SLR equipment. I have a fantastic 50mm/1.2 lens and an even more fabulous 85mm/1.2 lens for portraits. Add to them a 35mm/2.0 lens with maybe a 17mm/4 throown in, I would have a super set. However, the weight is something else here. The Canon F1N with its built-in spotmeter has yet to fail me in over 15 years of use.

Thoughts are brewing in my mind ....

 

[RicardoD]

Sadly, and I think I mentioned this in another thread, I agree with Avotius. Dull and grey. So much industry cranking out the world's products. It is a price the country is paying for their incredible economic growth rates and explosive urban growth that is staggering. I can't imagine shooting in color. My reference point is Hong Kong and Shenzhen.

The China I want to see is the countryside shown in the movies House of Flying Daggers and Hero. That would put your velvia to good use.

 

[StuartR]

Raid -- I also have an F1N and the 85/1.2L and 50mm f/1.2L. I don't think you can go wrong with them, but as you said, they are very heavy, particuarly the 85mm lens. When I was living in Japan in the summer of 2003, I walked around with an F1N, the 50, 85, a T90 and a 24/2. Like China, it was hot and humid there, and I was walking several hours a day. It was very tiring (and I was only 25), and it was one of the major reasons that I bought a rangefinder setup. If you really do plan on walking all day, I think the difference in weight will really make an impact on you. In terms of performance, the Canon FD lenses are great (probably better than many of the EOS lenses), so I don't think that is the issue.

 

[clarence]

The China I want to see is the countryside shown in the movies House of Flying Daggers and Hero. That would put your velvia to good use.

There are reasons why we only see them in movies and photographs, unfortunately.

Clarence

 

[raid]

I also would love to be able to tour parts of the rural areas of China, but I doubt it that there will be a tour available for us to do so. I love the FD line of lenses, but I also realize that traveling in warm weather with heavy equipment will drastically change my enjoyment level. I am reading repeated statements about the pollution in CHina and about using B& film. This may make me go that way in the end. I may ask my wife to uss a color print film in her Olympus Stylus 35mm-80mm zoom P&S camera while I go with traditional B&W film.

 

[LKSC]

Raid, I have shot a lot Neopan 400 in the Natura black, at +0.5 EV. It works well for me, because of the latitude, with bright sunlit shots and dark theatre interiors on the same roll. May I recommend Photo Impact in Hollywood for B&W development and custom printing. www.photoimpactonline.com

 

[Michiel]

I would like to repeat something others have said:

Chinese cities are incredibly hot, most and dusty in summer. Don't carry more than absolutely necessary. Really, I'm not kidding. The are crowded and poluted, the stores are really tiny, so every extra bag or bit of gear will get in the way and become unpleasant.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to recommend lenses and whatnot, but I can advise you to bring a fast one. It gets dark quickly in the evening, but more importantly, there are a lot of beautiful shots to be taken in low light situations. Of course inside temples and buildings for one, but in the evening outside in the streets the (electrical) red lanterns are 'lit' and there are some wonderful oppertunities there as well. So take something fast!

[edit]
Oh, forgot to ask: you haven't really said where you will be going. Cities only or to some other places as well? I think everyone here who has been to China can give you tips about those places when they know where you are planning to go.

If you want some beautiful countryside and mountains, try the Yellow Mountains (Huangshan), the southern province of Guanxi, or the large national park near Chengdu which name I have forgotten.

(hm, it seems the board can't handle traditional characters.. 🙂 )

 

[raid]

I would like to repeat something others have said:

Chinese cities are incredibly hot, most and dusty in summer. Don't carry more than absolutely necessary. Really, I'm not kidding. The are crowded and poluted, the stores are really tiny, so every extra bag or bit of gear will get in the way and become unpleasant.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to recommend lenses and whatnot, but I can advise you to bring a fast one. It gets dark quickly in the evening, but more importantly, there are a lot of beautiful shots to be taken in low light situations. Of course inside temples and buildings for one, but in the evening outside in the streets the (electrical) red lanterns are 'lit' and there are some wonderful oppertunities there as well. So take something fast!

[edit]
Oh, forgot to ask: you haven't really said where you will be going. Cities only or to some other places as well? I think everyone here who has been to China can give you tips about those places when they know where you are planning to go.

If you want some beautiful countryside and mountains, try the Yellow Mountains (Huangshan), the southern province of Guanxi, or the large national park near Chengdu which name I have forgotten.

(hm, it seems the board can't handle traditional characters.. 🙂 )

Michiel: We are going to Nankai, which is adjacent to Beijing. We will spend 3-4 days in Nankai and 3 days in Beijing. I was told that Nankai is a "smaller city" with about ten million population.

 

[raid]

Raid -- I also have an F1N and the 85/1.2L and 50mm f/1.2L. I don't think you can go wrong with them, but as you said, they are very heavy, particuarly the 85mm lens. When I was living in Japan in the summer of 2003, I walked around with an F1N, the 50, 85, a T90 and a 24/2. Like China, it was hot and humid there, and I was walking several hours a day. It was very tiring (and I was only 25), and it was one of the major reasons that I bought a rangefinder setup. If you really do plan on walking all day, I think the difference in weight will really make an impact on you. In terms of performance, the Canon FD lenses are great (probably better than many of the EOS lenses), so I don't think that is the issue.

Stuart: I hate such climates with hot and humid weather (like Florida!), but I have no choice this time. I will ty to stick to my very basic camera outfit and not get tempted to add anything else to it. I will leave behind my trusted FD equipment because I want to enjoy the trip.

 

[raid]

Several postings have convinced me [and my wife] that I will use B&W film while she will have in her Olympus Stylus P&S camera some Fujicolor 200 film.