Upgrade to the M 10?

[fad gadget]

The M10 being essentially the same size as a film M is what is known as 'a big deal.'

All the other differences are peripheral.

If the M10 were the same size as previous models some consumers would of course still be 'upgrading', but there is a big reason why Leica reduced the size; namely, they know it's a 'big deal' to Leica shooters. They will sell a them in large numbers (relative to Leica, not to other manufacturers.)

The majority of Leicaphiles thumb their noses at the M5; over time it will be the same with the larger M digitals.

Agreed. Although, the size of the M240 really didn't bother me, I just never took a liking to it.

 

[fad gadget]

I almost feel that this will be the future of the SL.
It is so freakin awesome, but so different than what the avg M user expects or wants. Yeah, it is not meant to be an M replacement but everything that Leica makes or has ever made is measured against the M.

Could be, but it's a different animal. I really enjoy using it, I just don't want to walk around all day with it! lol

 

[Godfrey]

...
How carry-able is the SL - it might work well with the Noctilux on the shoulder.
With its larger native lenses, I guess it tips over but does it hang well vertically ?

I find the shape and form of the SL makes it a 'carry in the shoulder bag when not shooting, carry in the hand with a wrist leash' affair for me. A Nocti, an R lens, the native SL24-90 ... all pretty much the same for me. It's more of an SLR shape ...

It's not an M which I wear on a slightly longer than normal cord-style neckstrap and tuck under my left arm.

The SL should never be construed as a replacement or competitor to the M. It is a replacement for the R system.

G

 

[uhoh7]

I don't have my M240 any longer as I traded it for an SL, otherwise I would be happy to.
But what I noticed right off the bat, is the amount of post processing that's required to bring the M240 photo's up to the M10 standard, which I prefer.
The SL and the M10 are very close in that respect. The new sensor is quite an improvement in certain areas.

The Monochrom M246's still king of black and white though.

SL and M10 have totally different CFA, I would expect the colors are pretty different no?

To OP: while I like the M10 alot, I do watch the images as they come out on flickr from real users. The vast majority do not shout "upgrade". There are some really nice ones here and there. But the best of 240 and M9 are fairly astounding as well.

For image quality alone, ISO and edge performance on problem wides are the serious improvements. The variation in shots suggest the RAWs can be pushed around more than before. DR also appears improved in the really well edited shots. In most you can't really tell.

In fact all the M10 gaga, even at DPR, really makes me appreciate my M9 more, since it belts out clean clear color more to my taste than most M10 samples. The SL would be fun to own for sure 🙂

In a year I might even afford one 😉

 

[willie_901]

No, thanks — I'd rather get the M10, which is what I'm doing. Also, from what I've seen the IR cut filters, while an improvement, don't solve the problem.

Does the M10 use a stronger IR filter?

If on-lens IR filters don't completely eliminate M240 skin-hue issues with raw files, what else could cause this problem?

 

[fad gadget]

SL and M10 have totally different CFA, I would expect the colors are pretty different no?

To OP: while I like the M10 alot, I do watch the images as they come out on flickr from real users. The vast majority do not shout "upgrade". There are some really nice ones here and there. But the best of 240 and M9 are fairly astounding as well.

For image quality alone, ISO and edge performance on problem wides are the serious improvements. The variation in shots suggest the RAWs can be pushed around more than before. DR also appears improved in the really well edited shots. In most you can't really tell.

In fact all the M10 gaga, even at DPR, really makes me appreciate my M9 more, since it belts out clean clear color more to my taste than most M10 samples. The SL would be fun to own for sure 🙂

In a year I might even afford one 😉

The colour palette is very close to the SL, slightly punchier, but very accurate.
There is a more noticeable difference between the M240 files than the SL's.
One of the big improvements is the white balance, bang on.

I've never owned an M9, my first M digital was the 240.
From what I've seen the M10's files are closer to the M9, but more detailed.

 

[nightfly]

I own an M9 and saw no reason to look at an M240 or any of its variants- bigger, heavier with features I didn't want or need and files that looked worse to my eyes.

The M10 looks like an improvement in body size, usability and most importantly output. The files look a touch sharper but retain the same sort of palette and organic look that I love in the M9. The ISO dial means there's no reason to ever look at the LCD except to check battery level.

I'm not going to run out and buy one but in a few years when they are plentiful on the used market at half the list price, I will probably pick one up.

I think M240 owners doth protest too much.

 

[maggieo]

From what I've seen the M10's files are closer to the M9, but more detailed.

This, along with the slimmer profile, much quieter shutter, and the grip/thumbwheel is what is tempting me to trade away my M8 and M9-P for the M10.

Mitch, you know my work, does that swap make sense to you? I do love the color from the M9-P.


Fùtbol , Havana, February 12, 2017 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


Exhausted Boxer, Havana, February 15, 2017 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


Revolutionary, Havana, February 12, 2017 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr

 

[Nowhereman]

...Mitch, you know my work, does that swap make sense to you? I do love the color from the M9-P...

Maggie, wonderful color in your pictures above. I sold my M9-P and MM to a dealer in Bangkok at a little more than the going price in the States and ordered an M10 in Paris, where I am now but, as it hasn't arrived yet, I cannot say anything from personal experience. My decision was based on a discussion with a very good professional photographer, whose colors sense and work are superb.

His impression is that the M10 is operationally night and day from the M9, and that it feels like the Leica M that we all wanted when the M8 was released. His feeling is that with a few adjustments in Lightroom one can get pretty close to the M9 look — though he thinks that there may still be something inexplicably special about that look. He feels that, compared to the M9, the M10 sensor is almost too good, in that it can have something of a homogenizing effect. He said that the M9 was a challenge, especially in low light, but sometimes challenges pay off in better images, like using film. He feels that probably with the M10 one may have to "rough up" the image somewhat.

Also, he thinks that the M10 B&W conversions look very good, though it seems that the MM may be a little better, but again, depending on post-processing, it could really be splitting hairs. For my work, the superiority of the MM over the M9 was not really important because I was never after the "exquisite" look that the MM can give.
_______________
Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine

 

[maggieo]

Sounds like if I were to get a new camera, the M10 is the way to go for me, for a host of reasons.

The sensor on my M9-P is dying; corrosion, and the dreaded vertical line problem has made shooting in bright light and low light more difficult than it should be.

 

[Huss]

The sensor on my M9-P is dying; corrosion, and the dreaded vertical line problem has made shooting in bright light and low light more difficult than it should be.

What is the mileage on your M9-P? That is pretty awful to think that an 8 (?) year old camera that cost $7000 is soon to be trash.

 

[Nowhereman]

Huss - You're drawing the wrong conclusion. Maggie just has to send the camera to Leica for free sensor replacement. Sensor corrosion on M9 and MM cameras is not an issue because Leica replaces corroded sensors free of charge when the the cameras are out of warrantly. In the hot and humid climate of Thailand virtually all M9 and MM sensors have been subject to corrosion. The sensors on my M9-P and MM were both replaced by Customer Service in Wetzlar within three weeks.
_______________
Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine

 

[Michael Markey]

The SL rocks. Both design and function. I love EVF shooting, and will graduate to an SL from my Sony A7 if I ever can afford one.

RF or SLR shooting without the focus peaking is arcane to me. I only shoot one rangefinder for 'that vintage feel', my Leica II. And one SLR, a Canon EF (the 1978 FD mount camera).

No need to pay modern prices for an old-skool experience 😀

Having just bought an A7S I totally agree about EVF shooting . Its been a jaw dropper for me ... so fast and accurate .

If I have to manually focus thats now my preferred way so the digital M`s suddenly hold no attraction any more . However the SL ....

 

[jaapv]

Huss - You're drawing the wrong conclusion. Maggie just has to send the camera to Leica for free sensor replacement. Sensor corrosion on M9 and MM cameras is not an issue because Leica replaces corroded sensors free of charge when the the cameras are out of warrantly. In the hot and humid climate of Thailand virtually all M9 and MM sensors have been subject to corrosion. The sensors on my M9-P and MM were both replaced by Customer Service in Wetzlar within three weeks.
_______________
Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine

Not only that, Leica replaces by a new type of sensor that is corrosion-resistant too.

 

[jaapv]

Sounds like if I were to get a new camera, the M10 is the way to go for me, for a host of reasons.

The sensor on my M9-P is dying; corrosion, and the dreaded vertical line problem has made shooting in bright light and low light more difficult than it should be.

Which begs the question: why did you not send it to Leica? Both a dead pixel line and sensor corrosion are guaranty repairs without time limit.

 

[jaapv]

I brought my 500CM and 80mm to Italy back in the 80's, got some lovely photos but I wouldn't want to carry it around now.

When traveling I walk everywhere, usually 25/30kms a day.
I don't mind the M246 and a 50, but the M10 seems like the ticket.
I'll find out next month, that's the only body I'm taking this time.

Unfortunately the size difference is not matched by the weight difference.

 

[jaapv]

Sorry, Fred, you cann't expect a non-native English speaker to understand "mansplaining" (yet), alternative English or not.

Why not? Often their (English) language skills are superior to those of monolingual native speakers.

 

[maggieo]

Which begs the question: why did you not send it to Leica? Both a dead pixel line and sensor corrosion are guaranty repairs without time limit.

I haven't yet found a time where the six month wait without a camera works for me. And Leica New Jersey hasn't even responded to my emails about the procedure for sending it in.

 

[maggieo]

Huss - You're drawing the wrong conclusion. Maggie just has to send the camera to Leica for free sensor replacement. Sensor corrosion on M9 and MM cameras is not an issue because Leica replaces corroded sensors free of charge when the the cameras are out of warrantly. In the hot and humid climate of Thailand virtually all M9 and MM sensors have been subject to corrosion. The sensors on my M9-P and MM were both replaced by Customer Service in Wetzlar within three weeks.
_______________
Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine

If only we here in the USA could send our cameras to Wetzlar and not New jersey.

 

[cz23]

I haven't yet found a time where the six month wait without a camera works for me. And Leica New Jersey hasn't even responded to my emails about the procedure for sending it in.

Hi Maggie,

My experience is that you'll have better luck calling Leica NJ. I recently got mine back with a new sensor and noted their email response was very poor. Things started happening when I picked up the phone. Mine took twelve weeks, but that was for an MM.

At some point they will no doubt terminate the good faith upgrade. I'd certainly send it in if I were you. Time flies, and before you know it, you'll have it back again like new.

John