maggieo
More Deadly
Ah, OK- I thought that might be what you were talking about. I wasn't sure at first if that was lens distortion or something coming from either the window or the angle at which the photo was taken.
I wonder if it would even be an issue on an M8, what with the crop factor and all?
(That photo was with the Color-Skopar, yes?)
I wonder if it would even be an issue on an M8, what with the crop factor and all?
(That photo was with the Color-Skopar, yes?)
Hi, yes, that photo was the 50mm f/2.5 Color Skopar, which I think shows the pincushion distortion more than the Classic Heliar... or at least I haven't yet noticed this particularly with the latter lens. It isn't terribly important at such small levels, unless you're playing with the edges of your photo and include a long straight line paralleling the frame edge. Even so, some photo editing software can straighten-out such distortion.
Relevant to your question about the crop sensor... Optical distortion of these two kinds usually tends to be fairly uniform across the field, so if you crop and then enlarge to the same print size the distortion looks the same.
With some lenses the distortion changes, and may even reverse direction like a handlebar moustache instead of a steady arc. The editing software for my Pentax dSLR can deal with even that. Here's an example of barrel distortion that is very moderate in the center and then accelerates wildly near the corners... (Belomo pocket camera)
Relevant to your question about the crop sensor... Optical distortion of these two kinds usually tends to be fairly uniform across the field, so if you crop and then enlarge to the same print size the distortion looks the same.
With some lenses the distortion changes, and may even reverse direction like a handlebar moustache instead of a steady arc. The editing software for my Pentax dSLR can deal with even that. Here's an example of barrel distortion that is very moderate in the center and then accelerates wildly near the corners... (Belomo pocket camera)
Attachments
maggieo
More Deadly
Thanks, Doug! I'm learning a lot here, and I do appreciate it.
luketrash
Trying to find my range
I just got the Heliar Classic f2 and it's right up my alley: It's weird, and produces noticibly different images from most other 50mm lenses. It's got that rangefinder lens feeling.
The Nokton f1.5 is obviously a great lens, but looks like something that fell off of a 1970s SLR camera. With this goofy gear aquisition habit of mine, I like the interesting stuff rather than the technically perfect stuff. I have modern SLRs and a digital camera if I want to make cutting sharp photos.
I jumped on the Heliar 50mm f2 when I found it used because I can see the 3d aspect of many photos I've seen made with it. It's definitely sharp enough to use in the day to day world to the degree if you're making blurry photos with it, it's probably your fault, not the lens'. I like the funky aspect of it's almost useless collapse. I mean you gain ~1/4" of space by pushing it in.
I like that many people hate it and compare it to Leica gear always. My goal is to try and make photos that are more interesting than the people that bash the lens make with their 'better' equipment.
So far, my opinion is that the lens has goofy ergonomics for focusing and aperture adjustments. It has a tiny 39mm filter thread size. It has the propensity to sit collapsed while you happily take out of focus images, forgetting to have extended it. It has the ability to make everyone you meet scratch their heads and wonder why you'd ever purchase that over their cheap canon or nikon 50mm f1.8 lenses they have mounted to their digital cameras.
In other words, it's pretty much made for someone like me.
The Nokton f1.5 is obviously a great lens, but looks like something that fell off of a 1970s SLR camera. With this goofy gear aquisition habit of mine, I like the interesting stuff rather than the technically perfect stuff. I have modern SLRs and a digital camera if I want to make cutting sharp photos.
I jumped on the Heliar 50mm f2 when I found it used because I can see the 3d aspect of many photos I've seen made with it. It's definitely sharp enough to use in the day to day world to the degree if you're making blurry photos with it, it's probably your fault, not the lens'. I like the funky aspect of it's almost useless collapse. I mean you gain ~1/4" of space by pushing it in.
I like that many people hate it and compare it to Leica gear always. My goal is to try and make photos that are more interesting than the people that bash the lens make with their 'better' equipment.
So far, my opinion is that the lens has goofy ergonomics for focusing and aperture adjustments. It has a tiny 39mm filter thread size. It has the propensity to sit collapsed while you happily take out of focus images, forgetting to have extended it. It has the ability to make everyone you meet scratch their heads and wonder why you'd ever purchase that over their cheap canon or nikon 50mm f1.8 lenses they have mounted to their digital cameras.
In other words, it's pretty much made for someone like me.
kalokeri
larger than 35mm
Great, luketrash. That´s it - seriously the best description so far.
Thomas
maggieo
More Deadly
What luketrash said!
100% agreement.
100% agreement.
lawrence
Veteran
Doug said:
I thought I did see some distortion at the top edge of the frame on a recent shot but the weird thing is that it's only that one shot so maybe something to do with the angle I was shooting at. Anyway, it wasn't a straight line so please ignore my comment because nobody else has seen this and so I think we can just asssume I was talking ^%@"!
Well, not so fast; maybe there is some bit of pincushion in that Heliar Classic.lawrence said:
Here's the color shot I was referring to, with the white railing along the top. Put a straight edge along there and see if it bows a little. And I found another sample, in B&W, of a recycle trailer where the long horizontal lines along the bottom are not quite level but not quite straight either, again indicating a touch of pincushion distortion. What do you think?Attachments
Last edited:
lawrence
Veteran
Doug said:Well, not so fast; maybe there is some bit of pincushion in that Heliar Classic.
I can see some bowing along the top edge of the trailer shot. As mentioned, no straight lines in my shots but I noticed that in some portraits faces looked somewhat compressed in landscape format and and elongated in a portrait format. Not sure if that ties in but that's how it seemed. Anyway, I've ordered a Color-Skopar 50 just for fun and will do some comparisons between Heliar, Skopar and my old rigid. Having said all this, I do like the Heliar -- here's a portrait I did the other day with that famous '3D' look in evidence.
Attachments
Interesting portrait, and the sidelight helps the sense of depth and texture. A lens that compresses or stretches in only one direction would be "anamorphic", as used in some wide-screen movies, and the projectors. Not really possible in a regular camera lens. Could the effect you see be related to the 1:1.5 proportions of the 35mm frame?
lawrence
Veteran
Doug said:
No, I think I'm just about used to this aspect ratio after 45 years of looking at it
Got it. Lame attempt at explaining the unexplainable.lawrence said:No, I think I'm just about used to this aspect ratio after 45 years of looking at it
mauro scacco
Established
Classic nokton prominent 1,5 on contax with adapter
2
4
10
11
12
13
14
15
2
4
10
11
12
13
14
15
kshapero
South Florida Man
Some Classic heliar pics
Some Classic heliar pics
Some Classic heliar pics
Justin Low
J for Justin
I have all three lenses in question.
In terms of wide open, or one-stop down sharpness, I find, from best to worst: Skopar, Heliar, Nokton.
Bokeh: Skopar, Heliar, Nokton.
Build quality: Skopar, Heliar, Nokton.
Ergonomics: Skopar, Nokton, Heliar.
Weight-wise, they subjectively feel very similar.
To note, the Heliar is not very crisp wide-open, but it's a little better at f/2.8. My Nokton is soft until f/2.8, which is rather disappointing, but this could be sample variation in play. My Skopar seems unusually good even at f/2.5; this is my second, and my first one seemed unusually poor, sample variation again I guess.
My Heliar seems to focus a bit stiffly, but the collapsing/extension function is very solid, and there is no play. The Skopar can be one of the smoothest lenses I own, and the aperture ring has nice heavy click-stops. The Nokton focuses smoothly too, but the click stops are rather 'shallow'.
Naturally, they all occupy different positions in my line-up. The Nokton is great for low-light (although that may change now that I have a Summilux). The Heliar is great when I want a collapsible lens on my R-D1 (because the 50/2.8 Elmar-M will not collapse on that body). The Skopar is great with my IIIf.
In terms of wide open, or one-stop down sharpness, I find, from best to worst: Skopar, Heliar, Nokton.
Bokeh: Skopar, Heliar, Nokton.
Build quality: Skopar, Heliar, Nokton.
Ergonomics: Skopar, Nokton, Heliar.
Weight-wise, they subjectively feel very similar.
To note, the Heliar is not very crisp wide-open, but it's a little better at f/2.8. My Nokton is soft until f/2.8, which is rather disappointing, but this could be sample variation in play. My Skopar seems unusually good even at f/2.5; this is my second, and my first one seemed unusually poor, sample variation again I guess.
My Heliar seems to focus a bit stiffly, but the collapsing/extension function is very solid, and there is no play. The Skopar can be one of the smoothest lenses I own, and the aperture ring has nice heavy click-stops. The Nokton focuses smoothly too, but the click stops are rather 'shallow'.
Naturally, they all occupy different positions in my line-up. The Nokton is great for low-light (although that may change now that I have a Summilux). The Heliar is great when I want a collapsible lens on my R-D1 (because the 50/2.8 Elmar-M will not collapse on that body). The Skopar is great with my IIIf.
aronchi
Newbie
Are all those lenses also available with m39 thread, or only M bajonet mount?
Justin Low
J for Justin
The Nokton and Skopar are LTM, while the Heliar 50/2 is M-mount.
tennis-joe
Well-known
I have the Nokton and the only drawback is the size doesn't fit in the Bessa case cover. It's too big to snap the cover closed so I have to keep the smaller lens on the camera or take off the cover and risk carrying it without the protection.
Rendition of the lens is great but I have not tested it in low light. It's fast to focus and being new there is no chance of fungus, haze and the lot right now.
Joe
Rendition of the lens is great but I have not tested it in low light. It's fast to focus and being new there is no chance of fungus, haze and the lot right now.
Joe
bennyng
Benny Ng
joe,
Voigtlander has a camera case (VC-5) that should be able to take the 50mm Nokton mounted on the Bessa. Do check it out.
Cheers,
meven
Well-known
I love the Heliar 50/2. It is such a great lens, solid and compact.
I love the way it renders, it is very unique.
Leica M8 + Heliar Classic 50/2
I love the way it renders, it is very unique.
Leica M8 + Heliar Classic 50/2