Was HCB Really "All That"???

[Ororaro]

If you are an artist hard at work on your own trip how can you be bothered to really a) get particularly consumed by another artist's work but really b) bother to care for half an instant of what other people think of some other artist. I mean, really, who cares but beyond that, if you are out creating how can you have time...

I have the people that inspire me, hcb isnt on my list and looking at where and what he shot, I cant really relate to what he did. Maybe someday, after more life experience I will. France really isnt on my shortlist... But for now, who cares. The only thing I care less about than his work, precisely a billion times less, is what anyone else thinks about the guy, there is not enough time in the day to keep on top of the film that Im generating here, developing, scanning it and editing it, Im always behind, hundreds of rolls behind...

This board used to be relaxing to read. Perhaps my perspective is changing.

I will say that usually when I see a HCB photograph Im usually inspired to look at Willy Ronis. Which one is better? Who cares. really.

Lastly, if being rich had any impact on art, every idiot out there with a porsche and a noctilux would be the best photographer ever... Didnt HCB *work* for Magnum?

While I agree with you, mostly, I have to stop you at the "rich", "Noctilux" and "idiot" links you are creating. The Notcilux is a lifetime lens that only costs you 100$ a week for a year. Any average worker in a western country can do it. And when you calculate its resale value, you soon realize you can use it for free during years, less the interest en vogue. And if its value goes up you gain. If it goes down, you lose a Grand or two. Big deal.

No, really, a noctilux comes down to being a much cheaper then a summilux and even a summicron.

Okay... back to HCB.

 

[Ororaro]

Fred, sorry. You say "few could afford to set aside $100 each week on a lens" but you seem to forget they allocate that kinda money on other things. Cut off all the Big Macs, the Cokes, the extra beers, the pretty Nike shoes, the extra soft toilet papers instead of the regular rough ones, cut that useless cell phone, add a bit of will and there you are with 100$ saved each week.

Come on.

 

[manfromh]

I skipped the second page of this thread, so there might be something I missed.

Anyway, Yes I do like HCB's images, but not all of them. Last year his book "The Decisive Moment" was scanned and posted on the internet. I "browsed" through it and was suprised at how many of his images were just okay. Nothing special for me. If you do a google image search on his name, you will see his better photos. Bad ones are just hidden away somewhere.

I have this video on my computer called "Contacts". HCB talks about his work while his contact sheets are shown on screen. There was one image there which I loved, but hadnt seen before anywhere.

 

[chikne]

I have this video on my computer called "Contacts". HCB talks about his work while his contact sheets are shown on screen. There was one image there which I loved, but hadnt seen before anywhere.

Oh so you also know that he took numbers of frames of the same scene which makes the "decisive moment" sound like some commercial for Concorde.

HCB was the type of guy who would sleep with the enemy. Becaused of people like him, a lot of people think that esotericism plays a part in photography. How many times did you hear or read "I wonder if HCB ever took a bad photograph" or "How can I learn how to see like he did".... But the best one has to be "He wrapped his camera in a tissue and pretended to blow is nose when taking a shot", yes yes and he also took a whole roll of the same shot, but that isn't a good catch phrase.
There's a journalist called Amy Goodman, she claims to be anti corporate, anti emperialism etc, yet she wrote two books and at least one of them was published by Hyperion which is a division of Disney.

I much prefer someone like Winogrand who had his feet on earth, he was aware that he shot thousands of frames and ackowledged to people around him that most of the stuff he took didn't really made it, lately I've been enjoying taking loads of photographs without too much care as well.

HCB = HexaChloroBenzene

 

[sjones]

I fist saw Cartier-Bresson's photos before I was cognitive of his position in photography, and I liked them. Just started this photography pursuit three years ago, so in what was basically a crash course process, I learned about Cartier-Bresson, Capa, Alfred Eisenstaedt, Gordon Parks, Julia Margaret Cameron, David Octavius Hill, and the likes pretty much at the same time, and I am still learning.

After reading this thread, now I have the political angle on all of this; and in the end; somewhat irrelevant; I still appreciate Adams and Cartier-Bresson.

Anyway, Erwitt is one of my favorites. He likes dogs, I like dogs.

Also, I am in Tokyo; I am not married; I spend most of my leisurely time taking photos; and I have yet to reach the level of all the folks listed above…far from it.

 

[bobbyrab]

I thought the earlier analogy with Citizen Kane was very appropriate. Citizen Kane brought a number of technical and artistic innovations to film making, and has had an big influence on many film directors, right through to the present day, it's certainly one of the most influential films ever made. Perhaps HCB doesn't ring your bell, but if you look at the body of work he produced, it pretty much lays the foundation for most of what the great photojournalists have been doing ever since. I know there where a great many of his contemporaries who where doing great things as well, but I don't think any of them had quite the breadth of work, or have been so influential over the years as he has been. An example, and one that's used quite often on this forum, is the shot of the face on the billboard/poster, juxtaposed with the pedestrian/shopper walking underneath, well that's HCB, but he did it better, there was always some visual connection between the image and the subject, but more importantly he did it first. have a look at his shots of the London Stock exchange where he makes the bodies and legs look like a wallpaper pattern, brilliant. I've gone back to images of his that I didn't get initially, to find they now make sense to me, sometime due to being exposed to the work of a later photographer influenced by HCB. Photography has moved on, but it has roots, and a great many lead to him.

 

[mfunnell]

Oh so you also know that he took numbers of frames of the same scene which makes the "decisive moment" sound like some commercial for Concorde.

Hey, who says you can't take multiple frames of a subject before spotting the decisive moment and capturing it? In reportage, in particular, I thought one principle was to make sure you had a shot before worrying about getting a good, great or decisive one. Not that I've done it for a living, but the approach always made sense to me.

...Mike

 

[chikne]

Hey, who says you can't take multiple frames of a subject before spotting the decisive moment and capturing it?

You are correct, only half way though 🙂

What does "decisive moment mean"? Is it a good shot, an expression, a fleeting moment?
If so why giving complicated names to simple things, personally I find "decisive moment" to sound esoteric and makes it sound as if Bresson had a special gift, a bit like a guru (con artist) does.

Absolutely right to take multiple frames to get the right shot!

 

[mfunnell]

The questions I've posed would apply to all great artists. Be intellectually honest. Are you really moved by his work? How much is it a function of someones reputation of "genius" preceding them?

In HCB's case: some of his stuff I like a lot, some less so and some I probably wouldn't have looked at twice if not for the name. One of the things I've tried to do with his work (and others, and not just photography) is to work out why I like what I like and why others like things I don't care much for. So I can say "I see what he's doing, though its not to my taste". And see things that might, or might not, inform the things I want to do for myself. And so on.

The "big name" thing helps when trying to understand things that aren't to my taste but are well worth understanding. If I don't like something it doesn't seem worth trying to understand it if its just crap - which it might well be. If lots of other people like it then its probably not crap (though it might be) so it becomes worthwhile trying to understand it. And why I don't care for it . After all, I might change my mind.

...Mike

 

[mfunnell]

What does "decisive moment mean"? Is it a good shot, an expression, a fleeting moment?

I'd like to say something like "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it" except I suspect I might not, which may well be a problem 🙁 How can I photograph it if I don't recognise it?

For myself, I tend to be quite simple-minded about it (to the small extent I think about it at all). Something like "when all the key elements in the scene come into the right arrangement". This can be very simple-minded indeed. In a sporting scene "when the player catches the ball" might do it. Or, say, when someone walks into the right spot by a sign. Or when the geometry just looks right (or, at least, how I want it). Maybe there's something super-complex in the concept but, for now, I'm happy enough with my own "Idiot's Guide" simplification. YMMV.

...Mike

 

[Rick Waldroup]

Nick lost me when he started comparing HCB to digital photographers. I really do not understand why some people think that digital photographers just rattle off shots like they are using a machine gun. I shot film, in different formats, for over 25 years. But mostly using 35mm cameras. And I shot a lot of B&W film. When I went completely digital a few years back, my shooting habits did not suddenly change overnight. I still pretty much shoot the way I always have.

For what it is worth, HCB is one of my favorite photographers.

 

[Andrew Sowerby]

The only thing I care less about than his work, precisely a billion times less, is what anyone else thinks about the guy ...

... and I care about why people like or dislike HBC even less!

 

[kbg32]

I don't think Adams would have been half of what he is made out to be if it wasn't for Beaumont Newhall.

Critics and writers often do that - instill their prejudices with absolute abandon until there is nothing left. What is history anyway? For those of us that lived through certain times, there is our truth in what we know and experienced. For those of us that wish to write what those truths might be, there is our prejudices.

I hope I'm being clear.....

Follow the money......Adams basicly was the only photographer to benefit from the Sierra Club. Why well lets see he was president what...7 times. Do not forget Adams had a long commerical with Polaroid and Dr Land that did not put him into poverty. The Hype machine I think is real demon that is building up people all for the reason they are making lots of money for other people. It's hard for me to decide who is worse the Hype merchants or people enable them to keep pull this crap on the world.


Best Regards......Laurance

 

[nzeeman]

personally i think that both zappa and hcb didnt do anything extremely original. in music i think the residents are much more original than zappa and they started abut at same time and from later bands legendary pink dots and skinny puppy made much much more interesting music. also in photography i respect atget and to some level capa and i found almost all of their work beautiful but i could easily live without hcb... i love things that shows personal signature of author and zappa and hcb dont show that to me... they are too sterile and very unspontaneous...

 

[varjag]

Some people just have no taste.

 

[furcafe]

Ha! Agreed.

this thread reminds me of a moment on the weekend after a friendly kick around with the fella's. afterwards, as we were aoncuming the post match "beverage" on the sidelines and quietly admiring each others "beverage container" (read beer belly) the subject of david beckham arose...
much grumbling ensued and the end consensus was that beckham was a bum. usually i take no notice of said conclusion re; mr beckham as it almost 99.9 percent of the time ends in the same fashion. however this time i couldn't help but notice the absurdity of it all. a group of mostly dishevelled, largely out of shape, slightly overweight "backyard footballers" standing about declaring that a man who was twice fifa's footballer of the year, made 58 appearances as captain of the english national team, was the first british footballer to play 100 european championship matches, signed to manchester united at 17 years old was a bum. certainly not "all that".
sheesh, hcb stinks and lebovitz is over-rated. equally absurd...

 

[Nh3]

The only way to find out if HCB really deserves his reputation is to try and take a single photo which is as well composed and structured as one of his photos and that also on the street and without staging and cropping and manipulating the pic later on.

The same way, try to take a single black and white landscape shot using Ansel Adam's methods and equipment and then find out if you could do better.

 

[Aziz]

He had an excellent eye for a mixture of composition and subject matter, something very few photographers managed to do successfully. He also managed to make a photo with a 50mm lens look like it was taken with a 35.

In short, he is one of many great photographers.

 

[Nh3]

I have proof that HCB did not use 50m lenses only.

 

[ravnish]

a good shot is a good shot...full stop !
doisneau , atget, hcb , ronis all roamed the streets...whether HCB did lab work himself is irrelevant i think