georgef
Well-known
there are posts I agree to here, and ones I do not, and in-between there are many i sort of...one way or another.
What I think though is not effective, is trying to "quantify" HCB in terms of other photographers, in terms of popularity, price, amount of photos etc. I think in the end, it all comes down to a "feeling"... one may like his work, one may not, one may like most, or just little, bt in the end, the reason he became famous has as much to do with his talent as it does with his network, his right-time-at-the-right-place etc. There is so much more to his fame than just numbers.
What I think though is not effective, is trying to "quantify" HCB in terms of other photographers, in terms of popularity, price, amount of photos etc. I think in the end, it all comes down to a "feeling"... one may like his work, one may not, one may like most, or just little, bt in the end, the reason he became famous has as much to do with his talent as it does with his network, his right-time-at-the-right-place etc. There is so much more to his fame than just numbers.
bobbyrab
Well-known
I look at this site at least once a day to divert me from the boredom of admin and editing, and this has been by far the most interesting thread for quite some time, we're actually discussing the heart of photography and not some lens or camera bollocks that goes round and round until you're dizzy. Wouldn’t it be interesting if we had more of these discussions but moved on from the great classic photographers that established what the vast majority of us here copy to the best of our ability, to what the current generation of great photographers are doing now, I love HCB, smith, sanders, Adams, frank, etc, but it's done and dusted, shouldn't we look at the bigger picture of where photography is now, and where it's moving to. Let's move on from the usual suspects, there’s a whole generation of photographers out there pushing things forwards, but this site seems to be mired in photographers from the 20's-60's. Let's assume we all have a reasonable knowledge of the history of photography, if you prefer Capa to HCB, who cares, historians will decide a pecking order. Bring us your up and coming, current movers and shakers, but more threads like this please. The aesthetic of range finders and their relevance to contemporary photography. PS I may regret this post tomorrow, it's almost two in the morning, I've had a few drinks and I'm a bit the worse for wear........Robert
crawdiddy
qu'est-ce que c'est?
What an interesting thread!
I had avoided reading it for awhile, and now i just read the whole thing.
First of all, Nick's lack of modesty aside, I applaud him for his original post. Whether he's a troll, or casting stones in a pond, it was an interesting discussion. We don't all have the same taste. We don't all get HCB, and I include myself in this group also. Nothing says we all have to agree. Personally, I think Mozart is overrated. The film Amadeus, (and by the way, I think it was a very good film), gave him an instant status boost. Granted, he had a way with melody. I just think he's now overvalued somewhat. It seems almost blasphemous to say anything about Mozart other than to rave about him. And it's not that I'm anti-intellectual (in spite of Fred's opinion), or that I reject the classics. I certainly don't think Shakespeare is overrated.
On the other hand, I do think Frank Zappa was a genius. M.Valdemar (Vol de Mort?) mentioned Hot Rats (Peaches en Regalia, Son of Mr. Green Genes), and I agree it's one of his best, most-listenable records. (One Size Fits All is another.) But Nick has a point when he says some of Zappa's music is unlistenable. I think "challenging" is a more neutral way of saying it. Some of it may have been made just for FZ himself, inaccessible to most others. That's OK. I don't plan on re-reading Ulysses either, although I can still admire it.
I will also agree that photography and art need to be viewed in person, rather than evaluated based on digital images, or reproductions. There's a lot more "there" than what appears in a thumbnail.
But anyhoo, I appreciate Nick's post. There's no doubt HCB has been hyped, and I think it's possible he's been overhyped. (He certainly gets his share of recognition on this forum.) Annie Liebowitz-- also overhyped, although you may have to tip your hat to her, and possibly disrobe completely, in fact. But I'm sure she's crying all the way to the bank.
So Nick-- get out there and go after some chicas (chicas = girls, in case you're Spanish-challenged).
I had avoided reading it for awhile, and now i just read the whole thing.
First of all, Nick's lack of modesty aside, I applaud him for his original post. Whether he's a troll, or casting stones in a pond, it was an interesting discussion. We don't all have the same taste. We don't all get HCB, and I include myself in this group also. Nothing says we all have to agree. Personally, I think Mozart is overrated. The film Amadeus, (and by the way, I think it was a very good film), gave him an instant status boost. Granted, he had a way with melody. I just think he's now overvalued somewhat. It seems almost blasphemous to say anything about Mozart other than to rave about him. And it's not that I'm anti-intellectual (in spite of Fred's opinion), or that I reject the classics. I certainly don't think Shakespeare is overrated.
On the other hand, I do think Frank Zappa was a genius. M.Valdemar (Vol de Mort?) mentioned Hot Rats (Peaches en Regalia, Son of Mr. Green Genes), and I agree it's one of his best, most-listenable records. (One Size Fits All is another.) But Nick has a point when he says some of Zappa's music is unlistenable. I think "challenging" is a more neutral way of saying it. Some of it may have been made just for FZ himself, inaccessible to most others. That's OK. I don't plan on re-reading Ulysses either, although I can still admire it.
I will also agree that photography and art need to be viewed in person, rather than evaluated based on digital images, or reproductions. There's a lot more "there" than what appears in a thumbnail.
But anyhoo, I appreciate Nick's post. There's no doubt HCB has been hyped, and I think it's possible he's been overhyped. (He certainly gets his share of recognition on this forum.) Annie Liebowitz-- also overhyped, although you may have to tip your hat to her, and possibly disrobe completely, in fact. But I'm sure she's crying all the way to the bank.
So Nick-- get out there and go after some chicas (chicas = girls, in case you're Spanish-challenged).
NickTrop
Veteran
bobbyrab, crawdaddy - at risk of look a jerk for bumping my own thread, thank you very much gents...
imajypsee
no expiration date
Bravo, bobbyrab!!
Bravo, bobbyrab!!
Absolutely right on the money, for me. I haven't read the bulk of this thread, only because I don't have the energy to do so. I think, Robert, that you've hit on at least three topics that might be worthy of separate threads.
1. who are the new and up and coming photogs that we like?
2. what are WE doing that is in the "now" and not mired in the "past"? (for me, see next topic for a thread)
3. what are/ is the aesthetic(s) of range finders and their relevance to contemporary photography ? (a query I find very personal as I struggle to fit the rangefinder "eye" into my repertoire of modes of photography)
Mary in SW Florida, USA
Bravo, bobbyrab!!
Absolutely right on the money, for me. I haven't read the bulk of this thread, only because I don't have the energy to do so. I think, Robert, that you've hit on at least three topics that might be worthy of separate threads.
1. who are the new and up and coming photogs that we like?
2. what are WE doing that is in the "now" and not mired in the "past"? (for me, see next topic for a thread)
3. what are/ is the aesthetic(s) of range finders and their relevance to contemporary photography ? (a query I find very personal as I struggle to fit the rangefinder "eye" into my repertoire of modes of photography)
Mary in SW Florida, USA
taxi38
Taxi Driver
Satre it really is.
migtex
Don't eXchange Freedom!
Finally I got to the end of it (so I think).
You see, I'm not an artist (don't want to be either, no "ah ah") I'm just trying to one day, to do the One (just one) picture that make me proud with myself (not yet either), but doesn't matter what equipment I use it comes out as trash.. so I just keep trying with more hardware along the life for sure.
HCB just provide me (ain't learn it yet) a way on how to "Look", like with so many, he just show his own way... that can't be bad! Salgado shows is own way and that can be bad either... how One does it can rise more or less concerns so to speak... bad it isn't bad either.
HCB made Street Photography so important that today people fight for it or against it, and these are photographers or artists alike. So, besides His own objectives he must have achieve something... He made The difference.
and to sum up on the other topics...
All poor are artists but only the rich are successful....
Thanks Nik and Fred, I did learn something today... and that is not bad either...
You see, I'm not an artist (don't want to be either, no "ah ah") I'm just trying to one day, to do the One (just one) picture that make me proud with myself (not yet either), but doesn't matter what equipment I use it comes out as trash.. so I just keep trying with more hardware along the life for sure.
HCB just provide me (ain't learn it yet) a way on how to "Look", like with so many, he just show his own way... that can't be bad! Salgado shows is own way and that can be bad either... how One does it can rise more or less concerns so to speak... bad it isn't bad either.
HCB made Street Photography so important that today people fight for it or against it, and these are photographers or artists alike. So, besides His own objectives he must have achieve something... He made The difference.
and to sum up on the other topics...
All poor are artists but only the rich are successful....
Thanks Nik and Fred, I did learn something today... and that is not bad either...
Attachments
Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
Really?
Weegee? Doisneau? etc... or in painting, Picasso? etc etc
Well I must have missed something then ...
le vrai rdu
Well-known
albert camus, picture n°10
I saw it in Pau last automn, excellent
I saw it in Pau last automn, excellent
larmarv916
Well-known
Thankyou..."migtex" as well "bobbyrab" and"imajypsee" for your really excellent imput and adding the poster style HCB thumbnail. migtex's....."He made the difference" (HCB) Is another fudemental note of factual turth.
Maybe what is being voiced by the above mentioned authors is that an even larger question is......where is photography going NOW?? Also I apperciate someone else asking the question......How can we escape the past or replacing the last generation of master with a new group of "CLONE" masters that they themselves were only imitating people like HCB, and others???
These are all great questions and constructive paths of discussion. And with out getting bogged down in the "my favorite" photographer muck.
Look at the majority of large formatt photographers on the loose today. The vast majority are ALL shooting subjects and compositions that are oainful recreations of 192o's and the long dead F64 gang. Which for some reason many large formatt shooters seem addicted to.
I have a favorite joke that now days if you cant present at least 10 or so respectable images then you should be restricted to shooting only digital. Think of all the yet unborn rolls of film that could be save a life of shame. Now of course that joke undlines the need to have a reason or plan on what you trying to accomplish.
I might suggest we all might want to consider having a "review" of recent work just to get feedback on the effect our images produce....maybe like a show and tell. get up in front of the class and you get 10 min to show and explain what you shooting. Who knows what the benefits could be.
One last parting comment with all of the different "movements" in photography during the last 100 years......it serve to give serious consideration to the ideas expressed by our 3 members.
Best Regards.......Laurance
Maybe what is being voiced by the above mentioned authors is that an even larger question is......where is photography going NOW?? Also I apperciate someone else asking the question......How can we escape the past or replacing the last generation of master with a new group of "CLONE" masters that they themselves were only imitating people like HCB, and others???
These are all great questions and constructive paths of discussion. And with out getting bogged down in the "my favorite" photographer muck.
Look at the majority of large formatt photographers on the loose today. The vast majority are ALL shooting subjects and compositions that are oainful recreations of 192o's and the long dead F64 gang. Which for some reason many large formatt shooters seem addicted to.
I have a favorite joke that now days if you cant present at least 10 or so respectable images then you should be restricted to shooting only digital. Think of all the yet unborn rolls of film that could be save a life of shame. Now of course that joke undlines the need to have a reason or plan on what you trying to accomplish.
I might suggest we all might want to consider having a "review" of recent work just to get feedback on the effect our images produce....maybe like a show and tell. get up in front of the class and you get 10 min to show and explain what you shooting. Who knows what the benefits could be.
One last parting comment with all of the different "movements" in photography during the last 100 years......it serve to give serious consideration to the ideas expressed by our 3 members.
Best Regards.......Laurance