West Yorkshire Cameras Closing

[WoodallP]

I may be the last to know, but I learned today that West Yorkshire Cameras in Leeds is closing down. For those in the UK (actually I am in France but from the UK), WYC has been a good source of second hand cameras and equipment that has been rated by people who know what they are doing, and pricing is right.

The shop will close in the coming weeks and online sales will last a little longer.

I had always hoped to visit their shop and chat, but will never get the chance now.

This and the closure of Newton Ellis camera repairs at the end of the year are sad blows for UK members I’m sure.

 

[davidswiss]

I also never got a chance to visit, it's a long way from Dorset.

 

[Coldkennels]

I went to their old store many years back. Lovely place, lovely building, lovely people. And I've purchased a few things from them over the years. They always put a nice hand-written note and an individually wrapped bag of Yorkshire Tea in with every order - always a nice touch.

It's a shame to see them go - another great business pushed out by the dual blow of Brexit and landlords.

 

[WoodallP]

I went to their old store many years back. Lovely place, lovely building, lovely people. And I've purchased a few things from them over the years. They always put a nice hand-written note and an individually wrapped bag of Yorkshire Tea in with every order - always a nice touch.

It's a shame to see them go - another great business pushed out by the dual blow of Brexit and landlords.

Yes I enjoyed the tea and the hand written note!

For those who want to read more please see : We are closing.

Whilst it is arguable whether this forum should be a place to discuss politics; it is surely a place to discuss how politics affects photography and Brexit has really hit people's ability to sell vintage cameras and even send them for repair if they are crossing between the UK and the EU or vise-versa.

 

[boojum]

There is also involved the mass migration of purchasers to high volume retailers that we see everywhere. A really wonderful camera shop in Palo Alto, CA, Keeble and Schuchat, closed down also. It is a trend regardless of local politics even though local politics may hasten it some. Here in the US our export/import policies are essentially unchanged and the small camera store has all but disappeared. Small shops cannot compete.

 

[WoodallP]

There is also involved the mass migration of purchasers to high volume retailers that we see everywhere. A really wonderful camera shop in Palo Alto, CA, Keeble and Schuchat, closed down also. It is a trend regardless of local politics even though local politics may hasten it some. Here in the US our export/import policies are essentially unchanged and the small camera store has all but disappeared. Small shops cannot compete.

Yes there are many reasons for this outcome, every closure has its own story. I regret them all.

 

[sojournerphoto]

That’s very sad. I remember when they first opened down in the Corn Exchange. Lovely shop and people. My FM2n came from them and is lovely.

 

[Coldkennels]

There is also involved the mass migration of purchasers to high volume retailers that we see everywhere.

That's not really the case here.

WY Cameras specialised in vintage film gear - they didn't sell a single "new" product, and absolutely nothing digital. That is a niche they did very well in, and it's these niche stores that have bucked the trend (see, for instance, this article in The Guardian about specialist stores in Berlin from 2019, or this article from Time Out about a button shop in London from the same year).

As the article from WoodallP states,

A combination of business and personal factors have contributed towards [closing WY Cameras}. Our lease at the Grand Arcade has come to an end. Whether we stayed in our current location or not, I have had to reflect upon whether committing to another 5-10 year period of running the shop was something that I felt would be viable financially and personally.

The cost of running a shop in a city centre is high. Wages, rent, utilities, taking the bins out. Stuff you never even think of until you have to pay for it. There is constant upwards pressure on these costs too. Everything is rising all the time. The obligation of our costs is constant, whilst the supply and demand in a market made up of second-hand goods is unpredictable. [...] Unfortunately, finding lots of good quality stock all the time is hard, and scaling up to meet these demands comes with diminishing returns. Whether you agree with it or not, a trade barrier between the UK and Europe now exists. Added taxes for importing and exporting goods means that, to any meaningful extent, we are limited to the increasingly competitive market of the UK for sourcing classic photographic equipment.

Sadly, I have first-hand experience of this here in England. I've run my own e-commerce business since 2018, and thought about setting up a brick-and-mortar shop in the town I live in back in 2020. I looked at the rents, rates, and so on and realised that in order to cover costs and give myself the minimum wage as the only employee, I'd have to sell more stock than I could physically obtain from the distributors I work with - never mind what I thought I could sell on a daily basis.

Think about that for a second: my e-commerce business was doing very well, but shifting from that to brick and mortar and just covering the costs involved with a physical shop in England was not just financially impossible, but physically impossible. This is why our high streets are empty - it's just financially infeasible to run a sustainable business and pay the rent.

Since then, Brexit has come into full effect, and while pre-Brexit roughly 30-40% of my business was selling from the UK into the EU, it's now maybe 5%, if that. This makes businesses like mine (and WY Cameras) very delicate, as if the consumer economy in the UK struggles or collapses (as it did during the huge spike in energy prices last year, where fear of rising heating bills meant everyone was tightening up the purse strings), there's no way to offset that. If I'd gone for the brick and mortar store three years earlier, I'd have gone bankrupt last year as a result. Thankfully my overheads are low enough I could struggle through; a lot of businesses didn't.

 

[boojum]

That's not really the case here.

WY Cameras specialised in vintage film gear - they didn't sell a single "new" product, and absolutely nothing digital. That is a niche they did very well in, and it's these niche stores that have bucked the trend (see, for instance, this article in The Guardian about specialist stores in Berlin from 2019, or this article from Time Out about a button shop in London from the same year).

As the article from WoodallP states,



Sadly, I have first-hand experience of this here in England. I've run my own e-commerce business since 2018, and thought about setting up a brick-and-mortar shop in the town I live in back in 2020. I looked at the rents, rates, and so on and realised that in order to cover costs and give myself the minimum wage as the only employee, I'd have to sell more stock than I could physically obtain from the distributors I work with - never mind what I thought I could sell on a daily basis.

Think about that for a second: my e-commerce business was doing very well, but shifting from that to brick and mortar and just covering the costs involved with a physical shop in England was not just financially impossible, but physically impossible. This is why our high streets are empty - it's just financially infeasible to run a sustainable business and pay the rent.

Since then, Brexit has come into full effect, and while pre-Brexit roughly 30-40% of my business was selling from the UK into the EU, it's now maybe 5%, if that. This makes businesses like mine (and WY Cameras) very delicate, as if the consumer economy in the UK struggles or collapses (as it did during the huge spike in energy prices last year, where fear of rising heating bills meant everyone was tightening up the purse strings), there's no way to offset that. If I'd gone for the brick and mortar store three years earlier, I'd have gone bankrupt last year as a result. Thankfully my overheads are low enough I could struggle through; a lot of businesses didn't.

Had you read and noted the entire paragraph you might have seen I was speaking about what is happening world-wide, not just in your shire. Amazon at the peak and on down to other huge retailers who can get giant volume discounts and courtesies that the small shop turning over a few cameras cannot, retail has changed. And please note it has happened regardless of weather and Brexit or other border taxations. This is not a local issue and it is fact. The small camera shop will go the same way the small tailor shop has gone. It is fact, it is accomplished. To quote Omar, "The moving finger having writ moves on, nor all your piety nor with shall lure it back, nor all your tears wash out a single line if it." Like it or not what is done is done. I am merely commenting on the reality. You may think it unfair. It is. Life is not fair. But too often "fair" means "getting my way".

I used to enjoy shopping at Keeble and Schuchat. It was a glorious store with a marvelous Leica museum upstairs. It is gone. The world has changed. What we are writing on changed it. The bell has rung. We cannot un-ring it.

OTOH while I cannot stroll over to Keeble and Schucat or a store like them. I can go on-line to YouTube and get a lot of information and advice and help on almost any subject. And I can repeat it as often as I need. And as good as I would have gotten in a shop, maybe better, and maybe by the same folks as were in the shop. I also have RFF for information and advice. There is some really learned advice to be found here. I no longer have to drive to or call a number of shops for prices. Just Google the item and go to "Shopping" to get the item and its prices. Phone calls and on-line conversations with retailers can answer my questions, all from the comfort of home with a nice glass of tea at hand. That's kind of an improvement for me. No more driving around the block looking for a parking spot either. It's 2024.

 

[rulnacco]

Had you read and noted the entire paragraph you might have seen I was speaking about what is happening world-wide, not just in your shire.

While there is merit in general to what you're saying, very little of it has anything to do with economic conditions affecting second-hand camera gear sellers in the UK.

It is an indisputable fact that Brexit has been a particular burden to businesses in the UK--it has reduced the market and the sales that go with it for UK businesses, while adding more costs and red tape to taking advantage of the European business that remains. And the UK does not have high-volume second hand sellers of camera gear like KEH or Used Photo Pro in the US--at least nothing that does the volume of sales that they do. Amazon doesn't even sell second-hand camera gear--in the UK or elsewhere.

So I'm not sure you even have any grasp of what Coldkennels is saying, to be charitable. What you went on about was highly irrelevant to the UK in general, and the particular business we are talking about here.

I'm speaking as a US/UK dual citizen, who's gone back and forth between London and here. In fact, in 2022 I was back in London and was considering opening a studio/creative space on the high street in Croydon, in the same place that was occupied by yet another second-hand camera shop that had closed down (although this was due to the death of the proprietor, and his son's decision to take the business entirely online).

I decided not to do so as 1) even though the landlord was willing to negotiate a reduced rent, it was still very high and would have made turning a profit difficult for a new business; 2) not only are business rates and taxes (VAT is 20% over there--even on used goods) far higher than in the US nearly universally, energy costs for heating and lighting are far, far higher than in the US--this alone has led to the closure of many businesses; 3) the UK has been enduring well over a decade of "austerity", and many people who are potential customers of a business like second-hand camera gear are strapped for disposable cash to a much greater extent than we have been hit with in the US.

I'm doubting you've ever strolled down a UK high street by the sound of it, but there *are* loads of empty shopfronts in many, many places (except for, as I observed, some of the wealthier parts of London). Many of those shopfronts were once occupied by small, family- or individually-owned businesses, while what is left are often corporate chains that can weather economic downturns--and even many of them have significantly reduced their footprint. (Try finding an actual open bank branch on many high streets; and when Wetherspoons' is closing even busy high-street pubs, you see that things are not at all good in the UK.)

Brexit was a disaster, it has gained nothing while sacrificing and sabotaging many advantages that accrued to businesses and citizens of the UK when we were also part of the EU. It may still satisfy the tribal yearnings of the Yahoos and their petty mewlings about "taking back sovereignty", but it's left everyone--especially many of them--far worse off. And it has directly and measurably contributed to the failure of several formerly healthy specialty businesses like sellers of used camera gear.

 

[boojum]

While there is merit in general to what you're saying, very little of it has anything to do with economic conditions affecting second-hand camera gear sellers in the UK.

It is an indisputable fact that Brexit has been a particular burden to businesses in the UK--it has reduced the market and the sales that go with it for UK businesses, while adding more costs and red tape to taking advantage of the European business that remains. And the UK does not have high-volume second hand sellers of camera gear like KEH or Used Photo Pro in the US--at least nothing that does the volume of sales that they do. Amazon doesn't even sell second-hand camera gear--in the UK or elsewhere.

So I'm not sure you even have any grasp of what Coldkennels is saying, to be charitable. What you went on about was highly irrelevant to the UK in general, and the particular business we are talking about here.

I'm speaking as a US/UK dual citizen, who's gone back and forth between London and here. In fact, in 2022 I was back in London and was considering opening a studio/creative space on the high street in Croydon, in the same place that was occupied by yet another second-hand camera shop that had closed down (although this was due to the death of the proprietor, and his son's decision to take the business entirely online).

I decided not to do so as 1) even though the landlord was willing to negotiate a reduced rent, it was still very high and would have made turning a profit difficult for a new business; 2) not only are business rates and taxes (VAT is 20% over there--even on used goods) far higher than in the US nearly universally, energy costs for heating and lighting are far, far higher than in the US--this alone has led to the closure of many businesses; 3) the UK has been enduring well over a decade of "austerity", and many people who are potential customers of a business like second-hand camera gear are strapped for disposable cash to a much greater extent than we have been hit with in the US.

I'm doubting you've ever strolled down a UK high street by the sound of it, but there *are* loads of empty shopfronts in many, many places (except for, as I observed, some of the wealthier parts of London). Many of those shopfronts were once occupied by small, family- or individually-owned businesses, while what is left are often corporate chains that can weather economic downturns--and even many of them have significantly reduced their footprint. (Try finding an actual open bank branch on many high streets; and when Wetherspoons' is closing even busy high-street pubs, you see that things are not at all good in the UK.)

Brexit was a disaster, it has gained nothing while sacrificing and sabotaging many advantages that accrued to businesses and citizens of the UK when we were also part of the EU. It may still satisfy the tribal yearnings of the Yahoos and their petty mewlings about "taking back sovereignty", but it's left everyone--especially many of them--far worse off. And it has directly and measurably contributed to the failure of several formerly healthy specialty businesses like sellers of used camera gear.

It must be a complete shock to you that people outside of the UK are aware of Brexit. And some even follow world affairs, even those about the UK. I choose to avoid the discussions of the foibles and shortcomings of British politics, or anyone's politics.

It must be a complete shock to you that big, on-line retailers sell used cameras and camera gear.

It must be a complete shock to you that you are not unique.

Your doubts are unfounded. I have spent time in both Scotland and England and was married to a Brit. My advice to you, sir: do not bet on horses, or anything for that matter. Your suppositions and judgement could be improved on.

Thank you for your kind attention, I remain your humble and obedient servant.

 

[rulnacco]

Yeah, I buy stuff from KEH and Used Photo Pro all the time. Not surprised at all. I hope *you* are not surprised that political decisions have real-world impacts, at the micro scale as well as the macro. That is why we have elections you know, mate.

And many politicians are no more than base, incompetent panderers and hoof-w*nking blunderc**ts, to use a wonderfully and accurately descriptive British phrase.

Humbly yours & c.

 

[boojum]

Yeah, I buy stuff from KEH and Used Photo Pro all the time. Not surprised at all. I hope *you* are not surprised that political decisions have real-world impacts, at the micro scale as well as the macro. That is why we have elections you know, mate.

And many politicians are no more than base, incompetent panderers and hoof-w*nking blunderc**ts, to use a wonderfully and accurately descriptive British phrase.

Humbly yours & c.

I devoted six years of my life in college to the study of history and politics. I completed my studies in Montreal. The characteristics of politicians are exactly the same as those who elect them. I think I have a fair grasp, and thank you for your interest.

 

[wlewisiii]

And to think I almost missed my paper copies of "The Economist".

Almost.

 

[boojum]

And to think I almost missed my paper copies of "The Economist".

Almost.

Reading The Economist may be helpful. It will suffice for the dilettante. If you are studying the subject one entry in your bibliography would make you a laughingstock. To come to grips with any subject you must read a great number of periodicals, books, essays, dissertations, theses and any other publications you can find. Or you can be satisfied with a single source. The choice is yours.

To speak only for myself my initial bibliography was over forty pages, complied under the outline laid out by Kate L. Turabian's Style Guide. For my submitted research the bibliography was only twelve or fourteen pages. That is twelve or fourteen pages of sources cited within the research paper. The research was on government regulation of the petroleum industry. It was both scholarly and exceedingly boring. It comprised ninety pages not including the bibliography. Grad school is the last outpost of indentured servitude. I was not lucky enough to get by reading a copy of The Economist. You have me there.

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[underlord]

I may be the last to know, but I learned today that West Yorkshire Cameras in Leeds is closing down. For those in the UK (actually I am in France but from the UK), WYC has been a good source of second hand cameras and equipment that has been rated by people who know what they are doing, and pricing is right.

The shop will close in the coming weeks and online sales will last a little longer.

I had always hoped to visit their shop and chat, but will never get the chance now.

This and the closure of Newton Ellis camera repairs at the end of the year are sad blows for UK members I’m sure.

I live near Liverpool and was positively bereft when I heard about Newton Ellis. I've had many cameras and lenses in their expert care since 2009 when I rekindled my love of film. I'm close enough to 'walk in' all my repairs and always enjoyed the experience. In this modern age of online booking, I always loved the fact that walk in repairs like mine were always noted down on a carbon paper pad. With a pen. The turnaround was not quick either. When they explained it could take 6 to 8 weeks to repair, I cheerfully reminded them that in most cases, the camera was older than me. I'm 63 and many of the cameras had been around for decades so a few weeks is nothing to get them back up and running. I currently have a Nikon S2 in their care, they are going to try and re-silver the mirror. I have every faith in them but all is not lost. Most of the guys who work there are of a certain age, probably older than I. The good news is that they mostly have home workshops and I have been informed by them that repairs to film cameras will continue. I have faith in them and am in no rush to get my S2 back - it's only been a month so far.

 

[stephen_lumsden]

That's not really the case here.

WY Cameras specialised in vintage film gear - they didn't sell a single "new" product, and absolutely nothing digital. That is a niche they did very well in, and it's these niche stores that have bucked the trend (see, for instance, this article in The Guardian about specialist stores in Berlin from 2019, or this article from Time Out about a button shop in London from the same year).

As the article from WoodallP states,



Sadly, I have first-hand experience of this here in England. I've run my own e-commerce business since 2018, and thought about setting up a brick-and-mortar shop in the town I live in back in 2020. I looked at the rents, rates, and so on and realised that in order to cover costs and give myself the minimum wage as the only employee, I'd have to sell more stock than I could physically obtain from the distributors I work with - never mind what I thought I could sell on a daily basis.

Think about that for a second: my e-commerce business was doing very well, but shifting from that to brick and mortar and just covering the costs involved with a physical shop in England was not just financially impossible, but physically impossible. This is why our high streets are empty - it's just financially infeasible to run a sustainable business and pay the rent.

Since then, Brexit has come into full effect, and while pre-Brexit roughly 30-40% of my business was selling from the UK into the EU, it's now maybe 5%, if that. This makes businesses like mine (and WY Cameras) very delicate, as if the consumer economy in the UK struggles or collapses (as it did during the huge spike in energy prices last year, where fear of rising heating bills meant everyone was tightening up the purse strings), there's no way to offset that. If I'd gone for the brick and mortar store three years earlier, I'd have gone bankrupt last year as a result. Thankfully my overheads are low enough I could struggle through; a lot of businesses didn't.

Yep, they do mention Brexit and how they are now largely restricted to a more competitive domestic market. It's a shame really. Going in there today to collect some foma 100 and 400. I will really miss dropping in now and again.

 

[wlewisiii]

I was thinking more of the commentary in the letters; "sound and fury" I think was how the Bard described it once...

But that's what I get for trying for subtly in a world of sledgehammers.

 

[boojum]

If Brexit were the sole problem the failures of small businesses would have only occurred where Brexit applies. This is not the case. Brexit may have aggravated the problem but it did not cause it. It is a global change in how retail is done. There is a world outside of the UK.

They went under because people did not shop there. You did not collect enough nice notes and tea, folks. That's the problem. Own it.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I believe that the world-wide move to using Cell Phones for photography has contributed more to camera stores closing than Brexit, Tariffs, or any other factor.
The Photography market has shrunk. It is a shadow of its former self, catering to very few people taking pictures.
The entire market for Professional photographers is a shadow of its former self. Everybody takes pictures with Cell Phones, and that is a source for people getting their photographs from Newspapers to Weddings. And Camera Repair Shops? We can name the few around the world that are still available.
My favorite camera stores closed long before Brexit, Covid, and talk of more Tariffs.

It is very sad that this store is closing. Another shop closing its doors.