Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
Boojum, with all due respect, did you read what West Yorkshire Cameras actually wrote on the matter?
Here, I'll link it again for ease: We are closing.
WY Cameras actually did very well as a business. What made them do this was the fact their lease is up and they'd have to commit to another X amount of years in a period of economic uncertainty with no way of ensuring any sort of stability against national economic turmoil. Another shop here in my home town did exactly the same - they were ticking over okay, but when faced with the prospect of renewing their lease, they opted to close instead of getting locked in to another X years.
Also, based on this line -
Germany, in particular, is an interesting case study in this regard. I head over there at least two times a year, and town centres there don't have a lot of empty storefronts - and the stores they do have tend towards the niche and specialist, as I mentioned in my earlier post.
Here in the UK - and, I suspect, in the US - there is simultaneous lament of the "death of the high street" combined with the frustration at not being able to obtain anything you want from the stores that do exist. In fact, if you walk into a lot of stores, you find the exact same things on the shelves as the next place down; stores have become generalists, and as a result, it's barely even worth going into these places. I firmly believe this is what's pushed a lot of people towards the likes of Amazon - the breadth of what's available there, rather than the sheer convenience. Time and again you find specialist stores are usually the last man (or woman) standing, as they not only become known as "the place to go" for that specific niche, but they're usually staffed by people with a wealth of specialist information who can answer whatever questions you may have. WY Cameras were amazingly able to answer my questions about 1950s Leica flash equipment (CEYOO and VACU variations), and it's that sort of thing that kept people going back to them. Same with Mr CAD in London, who will probably be going until the day the owner dies (as happened to Croydon Photo Centre, the shop @rulnacco mentioned).
This is precisely the case with stores selling modern equipment. No one's buying digital compacts, bridge cameras, and entry-level DSLRs any more. Any shops that used to make a living out of mass-market consumable products like this are closing, that much is true. But, again, that's not really the product line or the market WY Cameras dealt with, and so that's not the issue they had.
As a side note for context, I popped into the aforementioned Mr CAD to help my partner pick out a new 50mm lens for her Nikon F earlier in the year, and the owner proudly told me his biggest seller nowadays is large format equipment. He apparently can't even keep it in stock.
Here, I'll link it again for ease: We are closing.
WY Cameras actually did very well as a business. What made them do this was the fact their lease is up and they'd have to commit to another X amount of years in a period of economic uncertainty with no way of ensuring any sort of stability against national economic turmoil. Another shop here in my home town did exactly the same - they were ticking over okay, but when faced with the prospect of renewing their lease, they opted to close instead of getting locked in to another X years.
Also, based on this line -
- I'm assuming you skipped over the fact that the Guardian article I linked to (Are the hyper-specialist shops of Berlin the future of retail?) was looking at Berlin as a modern form of brick and mortar retail, so it's nothing to do with my "shire" (I don't live in a "shire" any more, sadly).
Germany, in particular, is an interesting case study in this regard. I head over there at least two times a year, and town centres there don't have a lot of empty storefronts - and the stores they do have tend towards the niche and specialist, as I mentioned in my earlier post.
Here in the UK - and, I suspect, in the US - there is simultaneous lament of the "death of the high street" combined with the frustration at not being able to obtain anything you want from the stores that do exist. In fact, if you walk into a lot of stores, you find the exact same things on the shelves as the next place down; stores have become generalists, and as a result, it's barely even worth going into these places. I firmly believe this is what's pushed a lot of people towards the likes of Amazon - the breadth of what's available there, rather than the sheer convenience. Time and again you find specialist stores are usually the last man (or woman) standing, as they not only become known as "the place to go" for that specific niche, but they're usually staffed by people with a wealth of specialist information who can answer whatever questions you may have. WY Cameras were amazingly able to answer my questions about 1950s Leica flash equipment (CEYOO and VACU variations), and it's that sort of thing that kept people going back to them. Same with Mr CAD in London, who will probably be going until the day the owner dies (as happened to Croydon Photo Centre, the shop @rulnacco mentioned).
This is precisely the case with stores selling modern equipment. No one's buying digital compacts, bridge cameras, and entry-level DSLRs any more. Any shops that used to make a living out of mass-market consumable products like this are closing, that much is true. But, again, that's not really the product line or the market WY Cameras dealt with, and so that's not the issue they had.
As a side note for context, I popped into the aforementioned Mr CAD to help my partner pick out a new 50mm lens for her Nikon F earlier in the year, and the owner proudly told me his biggest seller nowadays is large format equipment. He apparently can't even keep it in stock.
joe bosak
Well-known
Super-pedantic, but that's where I bought my (new) Pentax 17. But yeah, that and probably film.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
Ah, yeah. I was thinking historically. My mistake.
Ironically enough, considering I accused Boojum of not reading it, I forgot this passage in their post:
...which actually kinda reinforces what I was saying, to be fair!
The camera stores that I dealt with had a large amount of business selling "starter outfits" to students in the local schools and universities taking photography courses.
I used to consign a lot of kits through them. They had a better profit margin selling my equipment at 20% consignment than "modern Equipment". The schools do not have photography courses like they used to, not as many new photographers entering the market, and less sales of used equipment.
I've given away more starter cameras since the store closed, more than I used to consign through them. And many of those cameras were given to me, I clean them up, repair them, and keep them on hand to give away.
SO: shrinking market for new and used equipment. Hard to stay in business selling something that almost no one buys anymore. I worked at a camera department selling equipment on commission to pay for my first half of college. Second half- rewriting atomic structure programs. Glad I went with the latter for a career. Too funny- the last item bought off Ebay is a Pad based digital two-channel O-Scope. Need it to debug my code. I've gotten lazy, and do not want to set up the 4-channel analog Tek 2465B.
I used to consign a lot of kits through them. They had a better profit margin selling my equipment at 20% consignment than "modern Equipment". The schools do not have photography courses like they used to, not as many new photographers entering the market, and less sales of used equipment.
I've given away more starter cameras since the store closed, more than I used to consign through them. And many of those cameras were given to me, I clean them up, repair them, and keep them on hand to give away.
SO: shrinking market for new and used equipment. Hard to stay in business selling something that almost no one buys anymore. I worked at a camera department selling equipment on commission to pay for my first half of college. Second half- rewriting atomic structure programs. Glad I went with the latter for a career. Too funny- the last item bought off Ebay is a Pad based digital two-channel O-Scope. Need it to debug my code. I've gotten lazy, and do not want to set up the 4-channel analog Tek 2465B.
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boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I had not considered the impact of cell phone cameras to be as large as you say it is. That makes us a dying, dwindling breed.
A quick search and a chart pops up.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
A quick search and a chart pops up.
Everybody has a digital camera, but not everybody has a good one. To be able to place phone calls on your digital camera you have to sacrifice. But why not have both? That's working for me.
I worked in the camera department of JC Penney's in the 1976~1977. Salary+ 2% commission. Enough to pay the rent and go to University. I graduated debt-free. Sold a lot of Nikon, Pentax, Canon, and Olympus gear. Sold a lot of Nikon F2A and F2AS, even more Pentax. Had some sales at $2,000.
One time a customer came up and asked my to explain how the zoom lens worked, before he would buy it. Told him he picked the right time, we had just covered optics in Physics class. Explained how mechanical versus optical compensation worked.
Yorkshire camera states they opened in 2012. According to the chart- off the cliff. The shops I went to opened in the 1940s and 1950s. My favorite went bankrupt in 2012, staggered on a few years after that. The shops near me that sell used do not sell on consignment, and offer about 15% to buy used equipment compared to what they sell it for. I'd rather give it away. I did buy my Z5 from that same shop, letting them know the boxed F3HP that the manager offered me $150 for was sold on Ebay and paid the full price of the new Nikon.
One time a customer came up and asked my to explain how the zoom lens worked, before he would buy it. Told him he picked the right time, we had just covered optics in Physics class. Explained how mechanical versus optical compensation worked.
Yorkshire camera states they opened in 2012. According to the chart- off the cliff. The shops I went to opened in the 1940s and 1950s. My favorite went bankrupt in 2012, staggered on a few years after that. The shops near me that sell used do not sell on consignment, and offer about 15% to buy used equipment compared to what they sell it for. I'd rather give it away. I did buy my Z5 from that same shop, letting them know the boxed F3HP that the manager offered me $150 for was sold on Ebay and paid the full price of the new Nikon.
In the last couple of years I've had at least five Nikon F's given to me. "You'll give these a good home".
This pair- keeping. Mirror-up Modified.
Camera shows are also a shadow of their former selves. Picked up a lot of great gear at Photorama shows.
This pair- keeping. Mirror-up Modified.
Camera shows are also a shadow of their former selves. Picked up a lot of great gear at Photorama shows.
Doug A
Well-known
In at least one instance here in New Jersey digital killed an iconic camera store. When Fishkin Brothers in Perth Amboy, who had been in business for 92 years, closed in 2004 it wasn't because of camera sales. They were making almost as much selling digital cameras as they did previously selling film cameras. The difference was that sales of film, paper, chemicals and darkroom equipment which accounted for more than half of their business had dropped to almost zero in less than five years. The business could no longer support the family.
Was West Yorkshire Cameras selling anything other than cameras and film to support analog photography.
Was West Yorkshire Cameras selling anything other than cameras and film to support analog photography.
Freakscene
Obscure member
If you put smart phones onto this chart from when they became the dominant picture-taking devices the curves would be interesting. The Apple Store or your local Samsung seller is the camera store of 2024.
A quick search and a chart pops up.
joe bosak
Well-known
As I recall they moved to bigger premises at one point. They seem to have a fair number of staff. They appeared to be doing pretty well. Had the lease not run out for another 5 years it's not unreasonable to surmise they wouldn't be shutting down.
I doubt the rise of digital and smartphones has anything direct to do with WY Cameras closing. If film has been on a decline during their 12 years, it's the fairly slow long term decline of what was already a niche industry when they opened. It was never going to be a big business, and occupying this kind of niche it was sensitive to various economic factors (including Brexit - even for private sales EU trade now costs 20% more in each direction and adds a week of processing time in customs...).
I doubt the rise of digital and smartphones has anything direct to do with WY Cameras closing. If film has been on a decline during their 12 years, it's the fairly slow long term decline of what was already a niche industry when they opened. It was never going to be a big business, and occupying this kind of niche it was sensitive to various economic factors (including Brexit - even for private sales EU trade now costs 20% more in each direction and adds a week of processing time in customs...).
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
My local second hand camera shop closed down around 2015 if I remember correctly. I bought my Pentax ME, my Om2n and an OM1 from him. When I asked why he is shutting down, he gave me exactly the same reasons as WYC state on their website. He moved online for a while and just before the pandemic he disappeared altogether. I think there is some profit to be made in this market but if it is your main income, it is harder and harder to survive.
Dralowid
Michael
When in the US I used to go to Olden on Broadway. George's card is still on my wall but sadly they are gone.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
...and as @joe bosak pointed out, they did well enough to upsize to a much bigger store within a couple of years. Their original store was a small one on the top floor of the Corn Exchange - pretty, much not a lot of physical space. The one they're closing now is surprisingly large. You can get a feel for it here: Visit
They're not the only ones in Britain to do something similar within this time frame. Aperture had two shops in London when I first went to visit. Now they technically have three; they moved the camera sales out of the small one that used to be where repairs took place and opened a much larger one about 500m away, which is impressively well stocked in most film camera systems. The smaller one now exclusively does film sales and processing. Their third shop specialises in Hasselblads while also including a cafe and "camera museum".
See also Red Dot Cameras, who have also moved from their original premises to a larger one at some point in the last ten years.
It's easy to sit there and say "no one is buying cameras anymore so all the shops will close", but the thing that oversimplification misses is that the people who've moved from buying cameras to just using a smartphone were never into photography in the first place - they just wanted a quick way to take a snap while on holiday. As a result, the people who are left in the market are the "serious amateurs", who really care about the "craft", and want something "proper" to do it with. That's probably why Mr Cad is experiencing a boom in large format sales, why sales of film Leicas continue to do well, and why the only digital cameras that seem to sell to any real degree are the "semi-professional" ones like the Fuji X series. These are the sort of thing that Aperture, Mr Cad, and WY Cameras specialise(d) in, and they're doing well as a result.
(Of course, there's also the young kids looking for something unique and trendy, but that's not a sustainable thing to hang a business on. Where have all of Lomography's stores gone, I wonder? Hmm...)
Disappointed_Horse
Well-known
I think just focusing on the smartphone as taking the place of the camera for most/nearly all casual users misses another point. I think most if not all camera shops also made a substantial portion of their income from making prints (either from film they also developed or from digital files). Smartphones and tablets—not to mention storing and sharing photos on social media—have largely replaced photo albums and framed prints. That's another big loss of revenue for camera stores.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
That's a valid point. Look at Kodak's business plan - the cameras were loss leaders, as the real money was in the film, developing, and printing. This goes right back to their very first cameras! A cynical man (i.e. me) could look at everything they did as a way of maximising that revenue stream at the expense of the consumer (creating ever-more proprietary and difficult-to-print-at-home film formats, making new film formats as other manufacturers found a foothold in the market for existing formats, constantly pushing for smaller amounts of film in each new format, ignoring the digital cameras they invented as they'd cut off this revenue stream), and it absolutely bit them in the ass.
People (by which I mean consumers) are not as stupid as they're often made out to be.
People (by which I mean consumers) are not as stupid as they're often made out to be.
In the 1970s many people that used Instamatics went on to buy SLRs once they became smaller and easier to use. Another big push when AF made them even easier. I equate Cell Phones with 110 Instamatics, easy to use and carry. What's not occurring- those people wanting to upgrade. Probably a lot of reasons for this, too many to list all of them here. We're paying college engineering interns about as much as the average professional photographer is making.
Great hobby, not a great career choice.
Great hobby, not a great career choice.
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Zuiko-logist
Well-known
I pass Mr Cad in Victoria, London on fairly regular basis. It looks like a giant mess of cameras and lenses 😊
Freakscene
Obscure member
Why does Idaho have no photogeaphers?In the 1970s many people that used Instamatics went on to buy SLRs once they became smaller and easier to use. Another big push when AF made them even easier. I equate Cell Phones with 110 Instamatics, easy to use and carry. What's not occurring- those people wanting to upgrade. Probably a lot of reasons for this, too many to list all of them here. We're paying college engineering interns about as much as the average professional photographer is making.
Great hobby, not a great career choice.