What 50 are you using on your P?

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markbrennan

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Hi all -

I got some great feedback on some general questions about the P in another thread and now wanted to solicit more feedback on what fast 50 people are using.

jlw, among others, gave me some good feedback on the quality of the Canon 1.4 and 1.8 50s, and pointed me to Sean Reid's wonderful piece on luminous-landscape.com on fast 35s and 50s for his R-D1.

But I wanted to take a more general survey and ask some specific questions about the fast 50s you are using:
1) general sharpness;
2) bokeh (I know this can be subjective);
3) contrast;
4) relative size and weight on your P;
5) do you use a hood? Is flare a factor? (I know that the Voigtlander Nokton 1.5, a lens I'm interested in and which Sean gives very high ratings, is supposed to be subject to flare, so I assume a hood is called for.)
6) does the lens - w/ and w/out a hood - block any of the P viewfinder? Does it block any of the framelines?
7) how well/fast does it focus?
8) etc......

Sean's article is just great (thanks again, jlw!) - but his use is on an Epson R-D1. A lot of his results can be generalized, I know, but I wanted to hear other P users' opinions.

I'm considering the Canon 1.4, 1.8 and the Voigtlander 1.5 for use on a P (once I get one!). I'm concerned about size, but quality will probably win out.

Many thanks to all of you.
best,
-Mark
 
I don't think RD1 is relevant...resolution's about a quarter of what you get with film.

I've commented on Nokton's flare...it's not a problem for me unless I'm careless in strong high altitude light (I'm in New Mexico...flare's a special issue).

I'm not a bokeh enthusiast. I notice that examples of "wonderful" bokeh on photo.net are all over the map, some of them depicting what some describe as bad bokeh. If one wants Leica bokeh, one needs a Leica lens.
 
Mark,

I can't comment on the bokeh of these lenses, as I'm farily new to them myself, but there is another that you may want to consider; the Nikkor 50/1.4 lens with close focus capability (down to about 16").

It tends to sell for about the same as the Canon 50/1.4, or maybe a little more, but if you are the kind of shooter that tends to get in close on a subject, it may be the best solution out there for you. There is a discussion about this lens at the Stella website:

http://www.dantestella.com/technical/nikoleic.html

I got one for it's close performance, but have not really tested it out yet. I got a Canon 50/1.4 for more traditional distance work.


---Michael
 
Djon, Michael -

Thanks for the feedback. Didn't know about the Nikon.

Do you use these lenses on your P (Nokon 1.5 and Canon 1.4)? Is size an issue? Any blockage of the finder? I'm concerned about the hood on the Nokton.

Agree w/ you about bokeh. I should have put it lower down on the list. Sharpness, of course is important. I know all of these lenses are quite good. I'm trying to get a practicioner's perspective, along w/ look and feel. In other words, trying to gauge what the perfect kit will be.

Thanks again.
Best,
-Mark
 
Go find a late model black 50mm f1.8 Canon lens for about $150. Great lens in my opinion. Sharp with good contrast. Buy it, give it a try and if you find something better you can sell it for what you paid. I use this lens on my Leica M2 with an adapter. Potential pitfalls: infinity lock could be a problem, filters and hoods are difficult to find.

You may be putting the cart before the horse. Find a Canon P first. You may get lucky and find one with a lens. The chrome version of the lens is good and so is the 50mm f1.5 Canon.
 
Mark,

I don't have the Nokton, so I can't comment, other than to say that from the looks of it on Gandy's site, it will be as bad at blocking the VF as the Canon 1.4 with the hood.

I've included some photos of the Canon and Nikon 1.4's for comparison purposes. The Canon has the official S-50 hood, but the Nikon has an aftermarket hood. In the last photo, I also included a Canon 50/1.9 lens for size comparison. That lens is nice and small, but will not collapse into the P properly due to light baffles in the camera. I use it on an older bottom feeder I have.

The Canon blocks maybe 2% without the hood, with the hood it blocks about 15% at most. The Nikon blocks none without, and maybe 10% with the aftermarket hood. The blockage reported is inside the 50mm framing box only, so blockage in the entire VF is much larger with all of these, but the FOV of the lens eliminates the outer regions of the VF, so it is not important for in-frame compositional purposes.

The Canon uses 48mm filters, and the Nikon uses 43mm filters. The Nikon is heavier than the Canon, even though it is smaller. If you were to find a black collar version of the Nikon, it would be lighter, but probably more expensive for no optical benefit.

I think they both balance reasonably well on the P, but I like the indented focus collar on the Canon better than the knurling on the Nikon. I think the larger size is also a benefit if you are shooting fast, with people in the shots, for example.


---Michael
 
Photodog - thanks for the suggestion on the 1.8. I actually have an opportunity to buy a P w/ the 1.8 but the price is too high. Looking at other options. Agree /w you about the cart horse issue! Working on it as we speak......

Michael - I've come to appreciate your detailed and thoughtful info! The photos and the specific estimates on blockage are most helpful - thanks! Amazing how much smaller the Nikkor is. Not sure where I'd find one, however, but I'll poke around.

Sill looking at my options for getting a P w/ or w/out a lens. Appreciate all the great information from the P community!
best,
-MArk
 
Try considering alternatives to the Canon P. One sold in the classifieds last week for $255 which was a fair price I think. There are a few Canon VI-T cameras on the auction site now and a Bessa R in the classifieds which is still available.
 
contrary to dante stella's page, the nikkor isn't optimized for performance closeup and wide open. its best aperture is f11 at infinity. wide open and closeup, it's still sharp in the center, but the corners are soft. it's still a great lens. =)
 
I have the prejudice that LTM nikkors aren't in the same optical league as Canon, more like Serenar. I've seen some bad ones. If it were me, and it was when I bought my 50 Nokton, I'd go for the Nokton or perhaps the 1.8 Canon, black. Unless you go for a mint 3.5 Elmar or a Summar, Leica can't compete because you won't find a Summicron in decent condition for non-collector price.

Consider forgetting 50mm and getting a Canon 35 2.8 or CV 75 (which I want but have not purchased) because you'll probably want them sooner or later anyway.
 
Once you get into this, it's hard to resist getting lots of 50's and trying. LTM cameras are really "natively" 50mm cameras.

However, I really find the Canon 50/1.8 to be a very nicely balanced (performance wise) normal lens. It's definitely the most modern and "high performance" of the lenses you list, except for the 50/1.4. The Canon 50/1.8 probably really deserves its reputation as better than a collapsible Summicron. (Rigid Summicrons may well be better than the Canon, but they are stratospherically expensive in screw-mount.)

The Canon 50/1.5 has a different look, and just isn't sharp in the corners wide open. It is amazingly small for it's speed, but it does come at some performance cost. But, if I want to take one 50mm lens somewhere, and I need speed, it's my choice. (In low light, you have no DOF anyways, so what's a little soft corners?)

Nice Summitars and Summars can be had, even at reasonable prices, but it takes patience, persistence, luck, and some eBay savvy. Summars have a very distinctive look, astigmatism, low contrast, and vignetting when wide open. The Summitar is more general purpose, but contrast is low wide open. But, both are very nice portrait lenses. They are also plenty sharp and contrasty stopped down. But you need to get good ones.

I use them all on a IV-SB2, IIF, and a Leica IIIa. So I can't comment on the ergonomics on a P. On the other hand, it's rather obvious that a Canon 50/1.4 would be klutzy on any of my cameras, just too big. The P is a large enough body to balance it out. If you want the 50/1.4 lens, the P is a good excuse to buy it.

One note: I don't think any of the rectangular vented shades for these lenses (Canon or Leica) are really properly shaped to "dissapear" on a P. The Leica ones only are "see through" on a screwmount Leica.
 
Let me correct one thing I said,

I got the Nikkor for it's close focusing capability, not for it's performance, as I hadn't been able to test it in that manner before I purchased. I knew that it would permit a much closer minimum focus than all the others, and this was a factor for me. I used it in that capacity just yesterday in fact. It's something that no other 50mm LTM lens can do (that I'm aware of, anyway), without adding an Auto Up adapter.


---Michael
 
My Kenko vented shade (bought for my 35) DOES disappear in my P's viewfinder, but it's a clamp-on hood and isn't really very securely attached...so I got a screw-in non-disappering hood from Gandy (thanks Joe!). It's not nearly as interesting-looking but it does the job.

I want a better (hopefully vented) hood for my Nokton...Gandy doesn't sell one...
 
A similar discussion occurred not too long ago on this thread:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10098

Most of the lenses mentioned here are pictured with a Leica IIIf, you can get an idea of size. I'll have to add a shot of the Nikkor 5cm F2 Collapsible to the line-up.

another lens to consider is the Nikkor 5cm F2.

Currently, I am using the Canon 50mm F1.4 on the VI-T, very similar to the P. The VI-T has a vriable mag finder, something to think about if you plan to use a 35mm lens. It's VF scales back to 0.65x making it easier to see.

The Canon 50mm F1.8 is the best buy of all of these at ~$150, unless you get lucky.

There is a Canon 50mm F1.4 up for sell here at RFF for $210. That is a great price, they usually fetch $250 and more. You get 2/3 of a stop over the F1.8. It is a very sharp lens.

HINT ON GETTING NIKKOR's in LTM CHEAP: Look for Nicca and Tower cameras. Many times they include a lens. Many sellers do not know to Mention that it is a NIKKOR lens. My Nikkor 5cm F2 Collapsible was that way. Does that make me a BAD person???
 
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Hey guys - thanks again! Great feedback, much appreciated!

Brian - intersting idea about that Tower/Nicca, but think I'll pass... 🙂 Still, I appreciate the advice.

Many thanks and good shooting,
-Mark
 
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