what are the best MF folders with coupled rangefinders and "auto"film advance

[kuzano]

The shutter cocking mechanism seems quite sturdy. It is a nice feature to have on a folder and it doesn't feel like it's likely to fail. As stated by Kuzano -- who seems to have much experience with these cameras -- the weak point is the film advance counter/stop mechanism, not the shutter cocking.

The bright-frame combined finder on the Automat-II is much bigger and brighter than on the previous models and it's a pleasure to use. So, if you have the opportunity to buy one of these superb cameras for a reasonable price, don't turn it down.

Cheers!

Abbazz

Correct, the shutter cocking mechanism is Simple and Beefy. That's why I left it in place when I stripped out the film counting/stop mechanism.

 

[oftheherd]

Two things here... I will look through my parts and see if I have a set of the springs to hold the film plan bracket against those cams. Not very sure I have a set but will look. If you need better pics, let me know, but you seem to have the idea. the springs ride in those troughs and it's about an 1/8th of an inch pull up on that center hump to engage the hook on the film plane bracket. Spring wire for sure. One of the wires that comes to mind is the wire we use to use for control push rods in radio control airplanes. Comes in varying thickness. Hobby shop stuff for sure.

second, I have been lurking intently for one of those rangefinder Perkeos. I think they are called Perkeo E. Have seen them occasionally but I won't pay what theyre selling for. I have a Perkeo II with a color skopar lens on it. Wonderful small 6X6 that produces great images. I can put an accessory rangefinder in the flash shoe for a fraction of what Perkeo E rangefinder models sell for. Last one I saw sold for over $500. Often sell for more than Bessa II's with the Skopar.

Thanks. I really appreciate the info so far and the effort to look for spare parts. Those are great shots. Number 2 really reaches out and grabs me.

 

[oftheherd]

Any good hardware store will carry a large selection of springs, and some of these springs will have a long straight wire section. (If you can't find a suitable one at a hardware store, try going to an auto parts store and looking for throttle return springs.)

If you can find a spring that has about the right diameter of wire and a straight section long enough to cut out the piece you need, you are all set. WHILE WEARING EYE PROTECTION, snip out a straight section of the spring wire, then put the correct bends in it with two pairs of pliers (ideally one locking pair to hold the middle and one thin pair to do the bending) and you should have a functioning focus mechanism pretty quickly.

Thanks, good advice. I may try that myself after all. Mor fun that way, but, I always have the fall back of some really good machinists where I work.

 

[Krosya]

There is a Balda Baldax?(don't remember name for the particular model) folder that has a coupled RF and a film counter that stops at each frame. I used to have one. Very nice camera and small too. I just prefer Welta with it's red window.

 

[shadowfox]

Will,

Here are two pictures taken with the Mamiya Six Automat-II (Mamiya Sekor 75/3.5 lens wide open):


Sorry for the bad scan. As you can see, this lens is pretty sharp wide open, with great contrast, but the bokeh is a bit disturbing 🙁 just like the 75mm lens on the newer Mamiya 6.

Cheers!

Abbazz

Abbazz, thanks for taking the time! The lens is *very* sharp. I think sharper than my Yashica Mat 124.

The bokeh is not disturbing to me, a slight pattern on the second picture, but it's overshadowed by the sharpness of the foreground object. Man, that's sharp!

 

[oftheherd]

More Pics of the Mamiya Six Automat

Interesting. I have been reading this thread and yet it didn't dawn on me until last night when I was looking at my Mamiya Six again. Mine has a shutter cocking lever. I don't know if that means it is an early, late, or tampered with model.

 

[jlw]

Interesting. I have been reading this thread and yet it didn't dawn on me until last night when I was looking at my Mamiya Six again. Mine has a shutter cocking lever. I don't know if that means it is an early, late, or tampered with model.

The pre-Automat models (kazillions of them) all had manual shutter cocking, and I think I remember reading that contemporaneously with the Automats they also made a less expensive model with a manually cocked shutter.


Incidentally, somebody mentioned earlier to hush up about these cameras lest the eBay hounds catch on and start driving up the prices. I suspect this may be starting to happen (on medium-format folding RFs in general, not just the Mamiya) regardless of whether we hush up or not.

What got me thinking about this was my recent experience scanning some old 6x6 negatives with a flatbed film scanner.

For my small-format shooting I've basically given up on film entirely and have gone all digital, because scanning 35mm negatives (even with a dedicated film scanner) is a touchy process that seldom delivers the theoretical benefits that film might have over digital capture.

But scanning these medium-format shots, though... wow, BIG difference vs. 35mm scans from film! The bigger negatives, of course, are much easier to handle and clean; "grain aliasing" doesn't seem to be as big a problem; and the results are really, really nice even though I'm using only a modest $200 Canon 8800F scanner.

I'm not going to stop shooting primarily digital because I need the throughput, but I tell you what... if you lug around a DSLR or DRF outfit but worry about what you'd do if you came across something that cried out for more than 8/10/12 megapixels of detail, a folding medium-format RF would be hard to beat as a backup system.

Most of the cameras are small enough and rugged enough (when closed) to stuff into the film pocket of a camera bag, and I suspect that the resulting negs when scanned on a moderately-priced flatbed would give some very, very expensive DSLR gear a run for its money in pixel count, tonal range and detail.

I'm not sure that carrying a 35mm camera as a "film backup" to a digital outfit makes any sense, but these folding 6x6 or 4.5x6 RFs would be another matter. 120 film supplies are still plentiful, and probably won't go away any time soon as long as wedding shooters are using it, so it's only a matter of time before shooters in general start catching on to the fact that folding MF RFs are amazing in terms of potential photographic quality per cubic cm of packed size.

I don't know whether we should celebrate that trend by starting a "buying guide" thread with the features, weak points and rarity ratings of the most desirable models -- or shut up and try to bag the ones we want before others move in.

It's bad enough that we're already duking it out with collectors for desirable, fully-featured later models such as the Mamiya Automats and the Konica Pearl IV.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Abbazz, thanks for taking the time! The lens is *very* sharp. I think sharper than my Yashica Mat 124.

The bokeh is not disturbing to me, a slight pattern on the second picture, but it's overshadowed by the sharpness of the foreground object. Man, that's sharp!

Very high quality Tessar type lens indeed. The bokeh is also fairly typical for a Tessar. Not the best bokeh though in my opinion. Bokeh-wise most triplets are better. Tessars have an advantage in sharpness at wide open or close to it, but when stopped down a little more the difference mostly goes away and in general I prefer the triplet look. IMHO, if you want very sharp and contrasty, you should be using a modern camera and a modern lens in any case.

 

[Abbazz]

IMHO, if you want very sharp and contrasty, you should be using a modern camera and a modern lens in any case.

Or an old triplet at f/11 😉

Cheers,

Abbazz

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Or an old triplet at f/11 😉
/quote]

Indeed. Though in medium format most triplets reach their best sharpness at f/16, since diffraction is not yet an issue. In 35 mm f/11 is probably a safe bet, although I have been unable to obtain a Meyer/Pentacon Domiplan and cannot verify that myself.

There were also some interesting triplets used in 1960's German 35 mm fixed lens rangefinders and scale focus cameras such as the Rodenstock Color Trinon-Lanthan. As the name says, it's a triplet with Lanthanum glass and it would be interesting to compare it to the run-of-the-mill Tessars used in many 35 mm rangefinders of the day.

It's somewhat puzzling how you often read advice on the 'net how you "should stay away from triplets" if you want sharp results when it comes to 1950's cameras, particularly folders and TLR's. Do these people always use their lenses wide open and still expect high sharpness and contrast from more than 40 year old cameras? Even a Tessar will give much sharper image when stopped down a little. Heck, you can take the latest Zeiss Planar or Nikkor 50/1.4 and it will benefit from stopping down, although you will of course need to use a tripod and high resolution film or digital in order to see the difference.

 

[Abbazz]

It's somewhat puzzling how you often read advice on the 'net how you "should stay away from triplets" if you want sharp results when it comes to 1950's cameras, particularly folders and TLR's.

"Puzzling" is an euphemism, I would call that bullsh*t. The Novar lens on my Super Ikonta has a much better bokeh than the Tessar and it exhibits better contrast too. Sharpness is very good over the whole field from f/8.

Cheers,

Abbazz