What lens should I get with EUR1000?

Colman

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I've recently got a Bessa-T a CV40/1.4 and a CV75/2.5. Great fun to use, even with the separate rangefinder and viewfinder.

If I had a thousand euro or thereabouts to spend on glass what should I buy if I want to understand what all the Leica fans are ranting about? I'm not a big fan of 35mm but I'd consider 50mm. 90mm, 28mm? Used is fine. Is EUR1000 even enough money?

I'd considered getting an M6, but I hate having bodies that are more expensive than the lenses I'm using on them!
 
The ultimate 50mm is the Summilux Asph 50f1,4 and I suspect that Euro 1000 could be a downpayment! As for a more realistic approach - I would look at the Zeiss ZM 50mm f1.5 C Sonnar. It is considerably less than the Summilux and it is more than competitive with it. The Asph is sharper at close focus, but when you get into the mid-range - they are equal, If you do portraits at f2-2.8, your subjects will be pleased with the Sonnar shots and most likely throw heavy objects at you after having seen the Summilux shots (very few of us like scalpel cut renditions of our face).

A Euro 1000 could also buy you a nice 90mm Elmarit-M f2.8 or a Pre-Asph Summicron f2. Or you could simply extend your lens range, get a Voigtlander 90f3.5 Apo-Lanthar and a 25f4 Color Skopar P mount (couples to the rangefinder of your T) or even a 21/4 Color Skopar P or LTM mount.
This latter combination would also leave you some money for film!

The amazing thing is the variety of lenses that we are now available to get for range finders. A decade ago, it was a rather limited range of new and expensive lenses from Leica or a large volume of used, older Leica lenses.
Today we can look at lenses from 12mm through 90mm from "other" manufacturers and speeds from f1.2 to 3,5. All at prices that are considerably less than Leica's offerings.
The quality of these "other" lenses is extremely high. Som are equal to Leica, some even better.
My feeling is that at the moment Leica has two lenses on the market that warrants their price and reputation, the 50/1,4 Aspherical and the 75mm f2.0 Apo. The rest can be substituted with Zeiss/CV offerings as new and if you add in some of the used stuff, Konica's RF series of lenses - and this can be done without loss of quality, either imagewise or constructionwise.
 
What do you find to be the limiting factors with your current lenses?

Probaby not speed, given the 35/1.4. Probably not 'pulling power', though 90 is surprisingly different from 75. 'Getting everything in', maybe? That would suggest a wide-angle.

The thing is, I can't help feeling you're going at this backwards: not "What do I need?" but "What can I do with a new toy?"

In your situation I'd not buy anything until you are feeling limited by your current kit. Don't be concerned about why others praise Leicas, but if you can, try shooting through any Leica lenses you can borrow at a dealer: just shooting out of the door would do. If there's a 'magic', you'll see it. If not, concentrate on improving your photography, not on worrying about kit.

Remember that 'magic' is to a large extent subjective. The perfect example is the Noctilux, which attracts love and hate in about the same quantities, but there are plenty of others, less extreme.

Finally, except for the new Summarits, 1000 euros won't even come near a new Leica lens, and with used, you never know what you're getting.

Cheers,

Roger
 
Oh, I'm absolutely coming at this backwards, and this is precisely a new-toy sort of thing: I have a deeply unpleasant, moderately lucrative project going on and intend to use a part of the payment as silly money to make the whole thing more bearable. Thus the question.

I normally have a much more rational attitude to gear acquisition!
 
Oh, I'm absolutely coming at this backwards, and this is precisely a new-toy sort of thing: I have a deeply unpleasant, moderately lucrative project going on and intend to use a part of the payment as silly money to make the whole thing more bearable. Thus the question.

Okay: that makes eminent sense.

Then I'd go for much weirder stuff -- Canon 50/1.2, first-series 90/2 Summicron, 50/2 and 85/2 Jupiters, 15/4.5 Voigtländer -- to see what may turn you on. Or even another format: a Graflex XL, maybe, or a 'baby' Linhof (Tech 70, maybe).

My own view is that buying one expensive lens, without REALLY KNOWING that you want it, leaves you much more open to disappointment.

Cheers,

Roger
 
..If I had a thousand euro or thereabouts to spend on glass what should I buy if I want to understand what all the Leica fans are ranting about?..
If you're talking about the "glow", you can get that with any lens. Even with a $25 collapsible 50mm FSU Elmar knock-off. Well, maybe even especially with an Elmarski.. The trick is to wait for that golden moment when the light is just right..

When it comes to the legendary sharpness, the small increments in resolution over your CV lenses pale in comparison to what camera shake and subject motion does to your pictures. Unless you're shooting everything at 1/1000, or using a tripod all the time, you'll never see a $1000 difference..

And for exemplary build, you can get the same (if not better) from a $300 M-Hexanon. Put it side by side with a 50/2 Cron, and you'll see the difference isn't in build quality, but in how they feel. It's a matter of whether you find more rectangular machining (Leica) or tapered machining (Konica) of edges more comfortable to work with.. The same goes for your CV lenses, maybe they're not exactly built like a Leica; but if they're comfortable to work with, they'll beat the snot out of anything else, even if that anything else is made out of pure gold.

Long story short: get a $25 FSU Elmar knock-off, get out of bed 5 AM in the morning, take a tripod along and shoot some.. Then check prints for glow and sharpness.. then think again about spending $1000..
 
I'd considered getting an M6, but I hate having bodies that are more expensive than the lenses I'm using on them!

So what about getting an M2 with a Summicron 50mm - rigid or DR?

You could get that combination and throw in any of the excellent 90/2.8's for a lot less than some of the exotic stuff even with a separate meter. If you use that and don't like it or the results you get, you know the Leica M is not your kind of camera.
 
The ultimate 50mm is the Summilux Asph 50f1,4 and I suspect that Euro 1000 could be a downpayment! As for a more realistic approach - I would look at the Zeiss ZM 50mm f1.5 C Sonnar. It is considerably less than the Summilux and it is more than competitive with it. The Asph is sharper at close focus, but when you get into the mid-range - they are equal, If you do portraits at f2-2.8, your subjects will be pleased with the Sonnar shots and most likely throw heavy objects at you after having seen the Summilux shots (very few of us like scalpel cut renditions of our face).

A Euro 1000 could also buy you a nice 90mm Elmarit-M f2.8 or a Pre-Asph Summicron f2. Or you could simply extend your lens range, get a Voigtlander 90f3.5 Apo-Lanthar and a 25f4 Color Skopar P mount (couples to the rangefinder of your T) or even a 21/4 Color Skopar P or LTM mount.
This latter combination would also leave you some money for film!

The amazing thing is the variety of lenses that we are now available to get for range finders. A decade ago, it was a rather limited range of new and expensive lenses from Leica or a large volume of used, older Leica lenses.
Today we can look at lenses from 12mm through 90mm from "other" manufacturers and speeds from f1.2 to 3,5. All at prices that are considerably less than Leica's offerings.
The quality of these "other" lenses is extremely high. Som are equal to Leica, some even better.
My feeling is that at the moment Leica has two lenses on the market that warrants their price and reputation, the 50/1,4 Aspherical and the 75mm f2.0 Apo. The rest can be substituted with Zeiss/CV offerings as new and if you add in some of the used stuff, Konica's RF series of lenses - and this can be done without loss of quality, either imagewise or constructionwise.


Tom,

I always read your posts with great interest and have learned quite a lot from many of them.
I was wondering how you rate the Elmarit 24, especially in comparison with the ZM 25. Whilst I was very impressed with my ZM 25, I could not resist a recent opportunity and bought the Elmarit 24 (one of the highest rated lense in the Leica stable) as well, with the plan to sell the "weaker performer" of the two. Whilst these two lenses draw differently, they are both simply excellent and I have difficulties to decide which one has to go.

Reto
 
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How about getting a good photography class or two with the money? You can have fun, meet interesting people, you'd do interesting stuff, and the effects will be much more lasting than if you just buy a lens because it has Leica on it.

Philipp
 
How's this for an idea: instead of buying new kit, spend the money on going somewhere where you've not been before and which will provide good photo opportunities. Photos you wouldn't normally take where you are. After all, the gear's there to produce photos. Right?

[Full disclosure: I've just come back from just such an extended-weekend trip. I took 7 rolls of C-41 and 4 rolls of B&W - which I'm looking forward to developing and scanning - and a bunch of digital SLR shots as well. I'm already rather pleased with the results, and I've barely looked through 'em. I'll enjoy selecting and printing this weekend. I guess I'm in this game for the photos, so an opportunity to take and print 'em works for me.]

...Mike
 
Tom,

I always read your posts with great interest and have learned quite a lot from many of them.
I was wondering how you rate the Elmarit 24, especially in comparison with the ZM 25. Whilst I was very impressed with my ZM 25, I could not resist a recent opportunity and bought the Elmarit 24 (one of the highest rated lense in the Leica stable) as well, with the plan to sell the "weaker performer" of the two. Whilst these two lenses draw differently, they are both simply excellent and I have difficulties to decide which one has to go.

Reto

Reto, simply put- I had both lenses and kept the 25 ZM. The Elmarit 24 is marginally sharper at 2.8, but considerably "harsher" in its rendition. Typical Asph lens in that aspect. The ZM 25 is much more pleasing, at least in bl/w and it has that Zeiss consistency in how it renders things.
Zeiss has done an outstanding job when it comes to contrast and "smooth" texture. All their lenses that I have -from the 18/4 through to the variations of 50's have the same "look" - only the angle of view changes with the focal lengths.
The 24/2,8 is a spectacular lens, but I never really got along with it - partly because of its size but mainly becasue of the harshness in black/white (same reason why I got rid of my 21/2.8 Asph and kept the Biogon 21/2.8 and 4.5).
 
Roger, you're right: I probably need to double the amount. The 90/2 might be an idea.

Tom A, thanks for the suggestions. 75/2 sounds interesting. Of course there are no dealers in Dublin that actually carry stock, so I can't try before I buy. <sigh> A 50/1.4 might make sense if I knew I was going to get a cropped sensor digital M, but I just don' t like 50mm enough on 135 for it to make sense for me.

The rest: thanks for the wise advice, but I really don't need saving from myself - well, I do, but it's not going to help. I just took the family up to the mountains for a picnic and some playing with the wife's Rolleiflex, my Bender 4x5, the Bessa-L with CV15/4.5, the Bessa-T with the 75/2.5 and the two Ricoh compacts. We left the D200 kit and the film SLRs at home! I'll scan the film when it comes back from the lab ...
 
Summarit or Planar

Summarit or Planar

With 1000 Euros, you can hesitate between new 50mm Summarit-M and ZM Planar (cheaper). Both very interesting as primary lens.
 
I have all the 50mm Leica glass (most recent), and of all of them think the 50/f2.0 Summicron holds the best combination of size, speed, price and quality. I absolutely love it as a lense, and use it as my standard 'go-to' glass.

As it is quite an underated lense, it doesn't tend to be that expensive, especially second hand.

Apart from my Noctilux (which I use in specific situations), the 'Cron gets by far the most use out of my 50s (with the collapsible Elmar the least)...
 
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