What M or L lenses will give you swirly/bubbly bokeh?

[Ko.Fe.]

Summar. The rest of old Leitz 50 and FSU 50 L won't give you this defect as much.
M... If my memory serves me well, one of the first version of Lux was doing it.

 

[jankap]

Canon 50/0.95, wide-open, 1/100th sec, ISO 6400, on the Nikon Z5 mirrorless camera, using an adapter that cost ~$80.
I bought the adapter before getting the camera. I found the lens very easy to focus using focus peaking.

The Canon is not swirly, after all. I have one too, its bokeh is beautiful.
I use it on the Sigma fp, the adapter was 90€. Irritating is, that the adapter is too thin. Infinity is at 10 meters, which would mean a shim of 0.2mm.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The Canon is not swirly, after all. I have one too, its bokeh is beautiful.
I use it on the Sigma fp, the adapter was 90€. Irritating is, that the adapter is too thin. Infinity is at 10 meters, which would mean a shim of 0.2mm.

Completely agree- the OP inquired about the Canon, was interested.
Lenses with high flatness of field tend to have more astigmatism, swirly bokeh. Some field curvature is often designed into a lens to prevent it. I suspect the F1.2 and F0.95- the designer gave that some thought.

 

[Evergreen States]

I used it on an Edixa without problems other than I hated the Edixa.
I bought Bessaflex but the sticking out bit on the back interferred with the mirror lifting mechanism. The 35mm Flektogon from the same era as my Biotar clears the mirror in Bessaflex though.
I've just emailed Skyllaney about the Biotar conversion. I think it's the best option for me now.

Edit:
The earliest version of Biotar with 17-bladed diaphragm will fit Bessaflex. Later ones have that protruding bit in the rear and won't. I considered looking for the 1st version but they are difficult to find in a good nick and my 1950s one is mint.
Fujica or a Pentax would be a cheap problem solver for sure. I do not however seem to enjoy shooting an SLR.
Other than the nostalgia of my 1st ever camera, the FM2, I'm not really drawn to the SLR system. There are some truly amazing SLR lenses out there though...

I agree that getting your Biotar converted to M mount and rangefinder coupled seems like the best option to retain that Biotar look, without having to use an SLR

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Wide-Open on the M9.

A one of a kind Nikkor 10.5cm F2.5, missing the rear element and bought for ~$45. I "Eye-balled" the focal length of the rear element of a complete lens, measured the diameter, found a retaining ring of a Jupiter-3 worked perfectly to keep in place. Ordered some optics from Surplus-shack, an uncoated 100mm focal length lens. Did a two-point calibration to space the rear element correctly and set the main shim.

Bubbles and Swirls with a Sonnar.

 

[v0sh]

7A 50/1.1

 

[ravenxarmy]

I agree that getting your Biotar converted to M mount and rangefinder coupled seems like the best option to retain that Biotar look, without having to use an SLR

I got a reply from Skyllaney. It doesn't sound good:

Hello,

Thank you for your email.

The only way to convert this lens would be to import a special helicoid from the Far East, if we can find one (they appear on Ebay occasionally).

One important note - the converted lens would only work on Leica M2, M3, M4 and M11. On all other Leica cameras it will protrude into the camera and interfere with the baffling of the light meter.

Can't give an exact quote until we have the lens and the helicoid here, but the starting price would be £1250 plus shipping.

Let me know if you have any additional questions.

 

[Erik van Straten]

gelatin silver print (summar 50mm f2) leica lll

R.B., 2021

Erik.

 

[rodt16s]

The Minolta Chiyoko Super Rokkor 4.5cm F2.8 has quite an unusual bokeh.
I have had swirly bokeh with a rigid summicron under the right circumstances, but not to order

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Helios-103, wide-open at F1.8. This lens is a classic 1-2-2-1 Biotar design, made for Kiev/Contax.
You can use this lens with an inexpensive Chinese Adapter.

FOTOFOX Contax Rangefinder CRF RF Lens to Leica Mount M39 L39 Adapter RF-L39 | eBay

1 x Lens mount adapter. ï¼siut for Zeiss 50mm; 50RF; other lens maybe can't use,Suggest not to buyï¼. The 50mm lens linkage focusing is accurate,while the linkage of other focal length lenses is different or other limitations.

www.ebay.com

Forget using an external mount lens- the last one was different from the first two I bought. BUT- will work with internal mount lenses.

 

[Coldkennels]

View attachment 4819593

Helios-103, wide-open at F1.8. This lens is a classic 1-2-2-1 Biotar design, made for Kiev/Contax.
You can use this lens with an inexpensive Chinese Adapter.

FOTOFOX Contax Rangefinder CRF RF Lens to Leica Mount M39 L39 Adapter RF-L39 | eBay

1 x Lens mount adapter. ï¼siut for Zeiss 50mm; 50RF; other lens maybe can't use,Suggest not to buyï¼. The 50mm lens linkage focusing is accurate,while the linkage of other focal length lenses is different or other limitations.

www.ebay.com

Forget using an external mount lens- the last one was different from the first two I bought. BUT- will work with internal mount lenses.

Brian, didn't you say these don't work correctly with Contax-spec lenses (https://www.rangefinderforum.com/threads/inexpensive-chinese-contax-mount-to-ltm-maybe-a-little-work-required.4764813/ )?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

It's close enough for an F1.8 lens. The shot above- is on my Nikon S2.
You may need to adjust the Helios-103, move it out 1/2 turn in the mount (loosen set screws, 1/2 turn, tighten) OR move the rear group in slightly. The 1981~1982 Helios-103 uses a secondary shim for the rear group.
I adjusted a number of these for Nikon S-Mount.


Helios-103, rear group moved in slightly- on my Nikon S2. SO- easy fix. I've had to fine-tune lenses for the dedicated Contax Amedeo adapters as well.

 

[dourbalistar]

Under the right conditions, the Canon Serenar 50mm f/1.9 can produce some swirl. Of the lenses mentioned so far, it's probably one of the lower priced options, especially compared to the Canon 50mm f/0.95.


2017.07.22 Roll #115-01254-positive.jpg by dourbalistar, on Flickr

 

[Harry the K]

Summitar on Fuji X

 

[rfaspen]

But if OP can get Biotar 75/1.5 in LTM, it's "all over". I'm seeing examples in this thread using 50-ish mm lenses. I guess 58mm Biotar is kind of similar....
Not being contrarian. Many nice suggestions for swirly Biotar-like bokeh here. I have some of them. I still think I'd like an LTM (or M) version of 75/1.5 Biotar, or even 58mm Biotar with that obvious look.

 

[Zuiko-logist]

Summitar on Fuji X

Impressively swirly bokeh and fur!

 

[ravenxarmy]

But if OP can get Biotar 75/1.5 in LTM, it's "all over". I'm seeing examples in this thread using 50-ish mm lenses. I guess 58mm Biotar is kind of similar....
Not being contrarian. Many nice suggestions for swirly Biotar-like bokeh here. I have some of them. I still think I'd like an LTM (or M) version of 75/1.5 Biotar, or even 58mm Biotar with that obvious look.

I'd love one of these but while the exacta or M42 versions are still fairly reasonable the L39 versions are only just slightly overpriced. Has that Oprema Jena thing ever come to life? I heard about them planning to make one some years ago but never seen any for sale.

 

[Erik van Straten]

gelatin silver print (summar 50mm f2) leica mp

J.V. 2018

Erik.

 

[ravenxarmy]

The Topcor 5cm f2 in LTM is a Biotar design.

I've been looking for a Topcor in a good nick and generally these two pop up.
What I'd assume to be an earlier version:



And possibly a later version?



Are they internally the same? Is one recommended over the other?

 

[Miles.]

I've been looking for a Topcor in a good nick and generally these two pop up.
What I'd assume to be an earlier version:

View attachment 4819999View attachment 4820000

And possibly a later version?

View attachment 4820001View attachment 4820002

Are they internally the same? Is one recommended over the other?

You are correct about which variant came first. Same optics in all three variants. The variant not shown is more of a "panda style" in color scheme and is quite rare and collectible.