RJBender
RFF Sponsoring Member
copake_ham said:
George, I say there will be at least one for the budget-conscious buyer.
R.J.
Mazurka
Well-known
waterlenz said:
Tom, may I remind you of who made the Contax, Contessa, Super Ikonta and what not in the 1st half of last century. The Contax II/III were the first to combine VF/RF, and it was before WWII. Leitz didn't come out with a similar design until 1954.
Besides, the Leica RF did not suffer from flare until the M6. As for Zeiss Ikon products, RF flare has never been a problem at all.
S
Socke
Guest
Mazurka said:
Not exclusively, Ford as well as General Motors where happy to produce trucks for the geman government in the 30s and 40s of the last century. To be true, the germans and the british used the same detonators, in germany it was Schaub Lorenz and in the UK it was ITT Standard Electric. After the war ITT Schaub Lorenz was one of the major suppliers of television sets in germany.
The global companies didn't care who was in charge then and they don't care who is in charge now as long as they make money.
I'm living in a town wich was a number one target for US and soviet nuclear weapons and I served eight years in the german navy in a position which was assigned to the NATO, my job would have been to coordinate a nuclear attack on the place where my parents, sister and brother lived. So excuse me if I'm somewhat cynical, but I was in charge to defend my families freedom by killing them.
C
ch1
Guest
Mazurka said:Mind explaining, once and for all, why the new ZM lenses are merely the Leica-mount C/V range in a pretty suit? Or are we to accept that you are the only one who don't (or refuse to) understand the meaning of "contract builder", that Cosina is capable of making lenses entirely to someone else's order?
The rest of us already had that final answer regarding the ZM lenses even back in 2004.
Sure no problem:
http://www.zeissikon.com/faq.htm
Q: Who manufactures the Carl Zeiss T* ZM-mount lenses?
A: 2 types are manufactured by Carl Zeiss in Oberkochen, 5 types are manufactured by Cosina in Japan.
RJBender
RFF Sponsoring Member
Mazurka said:Mind explaining, once and for all, why the new ZM lenses are merely the Leica-mount C/V range in a pretty suit? Or are we to accept that you are the only one who don't (or refuse to) understand the meaning of "contract builder", that Cosina is capable of making lenses entirely to someone else's order?
Mazurka,
George and I are referring to these CV F mount lenses:
http://www.cameraquest.com/Voigt SL.htm
R.J.
halabar
Member
Wondering about these lenses... Will Nikon step away from some of the MF lenses they have been making still, and leave that market to Zeiss?.. could that be the deal?
-- Karl
-------------------
Still looking for a MF rangefinder from fuji....
-- Karl
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Still looking for a MF rangefinder from fuji....
halabar
Member
and it's still the f'n solution....
C
ch1
Guest
I'm going to say this once - and let the flames burn me if they will.
A lot of the refusal to accept that Cosina will be making Zeiss's ZF lenses stems from plain and simple racism.
As in the attitude that the Japanese cannot produce glass of the same quality as Germans.
B.S.
Simple - B.S.
Why is it so "unacceptable" for posters here to accept that Cosina is a highly-qualified and well-established firm that has already demonstrated it's lens making capabilities? Why can you not accept the fact, as stated on CZ's own website, that Cosina already makes most of the ZM lenses such that it is a reasonable expectation that they will now make CZ's ZF line?
Particularly since Cosina already has a F-mount license and production line.
On the cusp of 2006, do you really think that skilled Japanese optics professionals are incapable of making superior quality lenses?
Get real!
A lot of the refusal to accept that Cosina will be making Zeiss's ZF lenses stems from plain and simple racism.
As in the attitude that the Japanese cannot produce glass of the same quality as Germans.
B.S.
Simple - B.S.
Why is it so "unacceptable" for posters here to accept that Cosina is a highly-qualified and well-established firm that has already demonstrated it's lens making capabilities? Why can you not accept the fact, as stated on CZ's own website, that Cosina already makes most of the ZM lenses such that it is a reasonable expectation that they will now make CZ's ZF line?
Particularly since Cosina already has a F-mount license and production line.
On the cusp of 2006, do you really think that skilled Japanese optics professionals are incapable of making superior quality lenses?
Get real!
RJBender
RFF Sponsoring Member
halabar said:
I don't think Nikon is interested in producing MF F mount lenses anymore. I think they would like you to buy an AF lens for your MF body so you already have the lens when you move up to a AF body.
R.J.
Terence T
Where'd my Bessa go?
I got a couple of new Nikon/Canon adapters if anyone's interested
$45 with US shipping. Drop me an email!
$45 with US shipping. Drop me an email!
RJBender
RFF Sponsoring Member
OK, we need a volunteer from Japan to take a tour of the Cosina factory and give us a full report!
R.J.
R.J.
Mazurka
Well-known
copake_ham said:
Ham, you can use this quote another 100 times and still you won't be able to prove your point. No one has disputed that Cosina produces the lenses for Zeiss. The ZM lenses are simply not the same as the CV lenses, in both optical and mechanical construction. All they share are a common mount specification, back focus, direction of focus and aperture control, and a factory. (You may add some lens hoods and even silica, but that's it.)
Do you frequent any BMW fora and tell them over and over, that the X3 is a re-branded Magna Stey SUV, simply based on the fact that Magna makes all X3's in Austria? Why is the term "contractor" so hard to understand?
S
Socke
Guest
copake_ham said:
Looking at the DPreview forums it is a real problem for some that a Nikon D200 is produced in Taiwan and not in Japan.
Hey, a $1700 body has to be made in Japan to be any good, doesn't it?
S
Socke
Guest
Mazurka said:
And don't forget that 8 out of 10 Porsche Boxter are made in Finland
Apple Powerbooks are made in the same Taiwaneese factory which makes Dell Notebooks and Apple iBooks are made in the factory which makes IBM Thinkpads for a company in mainland China.
My HP 48 calculator is made in Singapore just like my Rollei 35TE. Globalization at work
S
Socke
Guest
RJBender said:OK, we need a volunteer from Japan to take a tour of the Cosina factory and give us a full report!
R.J.
How's about Steven Gandy? He did it and promised a report on his website.
RJBender
RFF Sponsoring Member
copake_ham said:
George,
I don't think it's racism. I think it's a belief that Zeiss's impeccable moral standards will not allow them to do this.
I wonder how those license agreements work. Does Cosina pay Nikon so many ¥ per lens or a flat amount per year?
R.J.
Last edited:
C
ch1
Guest
Mazurka said:
Firstly, to take things backward - BMW produces X3's and X5's for the US market in Greenville, South Carolina. They are made by good ol' boy Bubba's who eat bar-b-que and go bass fishin' on Saturdays (and the "lapsed" Baptists also sneak out to do so on Sundays).
Are these SUV's considered BMW's by your definition? They certainly are labled such here. Perhaps this is a fraud?
[Oh, and BTW, Daimler produces their SUV's in Alabama]
Second of all: "All they share are a common mount specification, back focus, direction of focus and aperture control, and a factory. (You may add some lens hoods and even silica, but that's it."
This doesn't leave much left - does it . Are you stating as a known fact that the ground glass comes from Oberochen? Because that's about all that would be left out. And, BTW, CZ's website does not claim the Cosina made ZM's come from Oberhochen so please submit proof otherwise.
I work for a German bank here in the US. Everyday I hear "home office" personnel talk about the dire need for German companies to outsource production because of the high cost German labor market. The reality is, if all Zeiss is doing is outsourcing to Japanese production, they aren't saving a whole lot as it's an almost equally expensive labor market. But CZ sure is buying quality production by going to Japan.
Just so you realize, Japanese automobiles far outperform German ones on almost all quality measures. So, why would it be any different with optic glass?
[And, BTW, we own both a BMW and Lexus - and love them both....]
Mazurka
Well-known
copake_ham said:
Ham, it is obvious that not only you have no grasp of logic (or use your very own brand), you don't even know the facts when you try to quote them. Check these links on the X3: http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=bmw+x3+magna&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Yes, all companies commit fraud the second they use contractors to build their product instead of building it themselves. That clearly includes BMW and Daimler Chrysler. But of course you never apply the same standard to Zeiss as to any other company.
Mazurka
Well-known
copake_ham said:
Ham, it is obvious that not only you have no grasp of logic (or use your very own brand), you don't even know the facts when you try to quote them. Check these links on the X3: http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=bmw+x3+magna&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Yes, all companies commit fraud the second they use contractors to build their product instead of building it themselves. They commit the same crime if thoeir products aren't 100% manufactured in-house. That clearly includes BMW, Daimler Chrysler and countless others. But of course you never apply the same standard to Zeiss as to any other company.
Mazurka
Well-known
Sorry for the double post. Jorge please delete the one from 18:44. Thanks.