What's up at Fuji - PMA 2008

luketrash said:
I've seen retro done well and poorly and this Fuji looks to be somewhere inbetween. However, I'd love to have a trouble-free MF Folder that is sharp edge to edge without film plane flatness issues.
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Me too, therefore I was thinking about the Makina. Excellent design, very classy look, but a bit fragile.
Concerning the retro issue, we all saw what BMW did with the Mini. Although the new Mini is a nice car in its own rights, it lacks all of the beauty of the original. Its much larger, you don't sit litterally on the street, and the steering isn't direct anymore.

The problem with this retro thing is that you neeed a certain degree of the original feel, and that has got to do with the production values and the aesthetics of the times it was designed. So what you get with the old products is a glimpse of historicity, and the task for a designer working with older design concepts today is to mold that into 'the contemporary'. That is a tricky task, and the best I've seen in camera design was the makina back in the 70's. The designers had the same task: to convert a 50 year old concept of a folding camera (what people thought was obsolete in that time, everybody sporting Nikon's) into a contemporary realm. I think they did a very nice Job in re-evaluating the concept of the folder and designed a great profesional camera .
So I am a bit sad that the Fuji designers went so obviously backwards.

Michael
 
You can still buy a new Royal Enfield or Ural motorcycle and they both come complete with the excitement of not knowing whether or not you'll be phoning your wife to come pick you up from the middle of nowhere 😉
 
The Austin Healey Sprite is probably my most desired car. (mhmm. Maybe a '76 Porsche 911 as well...). But rather a little Diva, I've heard?

Sounds like a great collection you've got Luke. The massive disadvantage of living in the center of the city is to don't have a garage...
 
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Wow! Fuji have suddenly trumped Voigtlander as my favourite camera company. I loved their Klasse compacts but this is a whole different level of coolness/bravery. I'm guessing its a "boutique" product for them like the remakes of the S3 and SP but its amazing to see a camera company spending time on something so far out of left field its untrue. Are they perhaps a camera company not run by marketeers? If the lens is up to the usual Fuji standard my Mamiya 7ii will be heading out the door...
Bravo Fuji 🙂
 
The old folders don't focus close @ all, about 1m minimum. I have no idea what's possible w/whatever modern technology Fuji has available to them, but I don't see how it would focus much closer than the Mamiya.

CK Dexter Haven said:
hat said, could someone please tell me something about folders? Typically, do they offer close-focusing ability? I can't seem to find specs on the classic folders. I'm hoping this new Fuji will go closer than a Mamiya 7, which would make it a better fit for me, with an interest in travel portraiture.....
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I bet the reason it doesn't have an EBC is because they watched Cosina sell their single coated lenses for more than their multicoated ones, haha.
 
Boys, that camera is really cool!!
Sometimes I like to take my old Zeiss Nettar with me, and I must say that some of my best photos are made with that sixty years old beauty, but... This Fuji has a rangefinder, and a light meter... So it's much more simple to use, I could say like a 35mm camera, but very small, light and compact, and with the great quality of the medium format... Ok, of course it lacks all the fashination of a true old folding camera, but it's a nice moder interpretation of a smart concept, imho.

Franco
 
rxmd said:
...That's fine. Every professional uses the tools of his day.
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I seriously doubt this is aimed at professionals.

rxmd said:
...However, this is a new camera. It just strikes me as completely ridiculous that the market is so, well, conservative that there is a new camera and all it really is is a 1950s camera, like an old teabag brewed all over again with fresh water. I was moderately excited when I heard that Fuji was somehow committed enough to medium format that they produce a new camera, but this commitment is nostalgia and nothing else....
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It is new, just because the design isn't dramatically different than the many folding cameras made over the last sixty years doesn't mean it is simply a collectors item or irrelevant. This is the first folder with AE is it not? I don't know how different a folding MF camera could look and still be functional within the parameters users are comfortable with.

Portable is part of the design- thus a winder and a grip are not here.

I have and use old cameras and new cameras. I have to say that there is a certain appeal to both, but if I was going to have one camera with me I will always bring the new one. Yes the old ones have gotten their CLA, but reliability on something that is 60 years old isn't the same as something two years old.

But I suppose we are all barking up the wrong tree here. We won't change your mind. But do ya have to keep at it? Most of us reading here are interested in this camera.
 
What is "retro" about this design anyway? It is a mature camera design that does not need changing - cars in the fifties had four tires and a steering wheel; they still do today.

I love this thing and will buy at least two if they are offered. One to use, and one as a back-up and to show my support to Fuji for making a commitment to keeping film products alive!
 
CK Dexter Haven said:
That said, could someone please tell me something about folders? Typically, do they offer close-focusing ability? I can't seem to find specs on the classic folders.
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Normally they don't. The folders I've been using include a Moskva 5, a Super Ikonta and a 1926 or so Bessa and none of them went closer than 1 meter.

This has two reasons. One of them is that they're rangefinders and you get close focusing and parallax issues with practically any rangefinder - there are next to no rangefinder cameras that will allow you to get closer than, say, 70 cm without accessories. The other reason is that for focusing closer the lens normally moves outwards in the mount, and because the mechanics of a folder have to be quite compact there is simply no room for a helical that allows the lens to travel outward very much. So they typically used some kind of external close-up accessory. I wouldn't expect a camera of this type to focus closer than 3 feet or so.

Regarding your other comments: look, I don't want to spit in anybody's soup here. I know about the appeal of old technology; I use a rotary-dial phone and take pictures with an M. I just think if you design a new camera you could do so much more than just having it look like it's fifty years old. They produced a great folder in the GS645 and had a great example to compete with in the Mamiya 7, both modern cameras without too much frills, but instead they chose to reproduce a Certo Six in 6x7. For me this seems like a step backwards and a missed opportunity. IMHO a thing should deserve attention from itself, not from looking like something else that was common 50 years ago. If this is just the camera for you, go ahead and enjoy it. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Philipp
 
Hey, I like rxmd's opinions here.
No need to restrict discussion to the fawning love fest you'd get if everyone liked the idea as much as I do.

I do think they could have fitted a lever film advance. I mean, if you were to look at an old folder as a good concept to be improved upon, that's certainly something you'd do. Leaving a knob wind does seem to be mostly about retro asthetics rather than practical design.
The rest of it works for me.
 
RXMD, just wondering, how would you have designed a MF folder?
Is it just how it looks that you opbject to?

(Everyone has a right to express their opinion, IMO.)
 
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what modifications would you suggest to Fuji design engineers? since this is a prototype, i'm interested in hearing what constructive suggestions you (and others can offer)? in the end, Fuji may consider them and perhaps result in a better 'new' camera...

i agree that the design isn't perfect (what camera is - design is an exercise in priorities and compromise), but i can't think of what to improve on (i'm not a designer), based on the limited information we have access to, i think that it's perhaps too early to condemn or approve of it ...

having said that, it's far too easy to criticize and point out the problems... far more difficult to offer constructive suggestions...

anyone with suggestions should chime in.. perhaps Fuji is listening???

rxmd said:
Normally they don't. The folders I've been using include a Moskva 5, a Super Ikonta and a 1926 or so Bessa and none of them went closer than 1 meter.

This has two reasons. One of them is that they're rangefinders and you get close focusing and parallax issues with practically any rangefinder - there are next to no rangefinder cameras that will allow you to get closer than, say, 70 cm without accessories. The other reason is that for focusing closer the lens normally moves outwards in the mount, and because the mechanics of a folder have to be quite compact there is simply no room for a helical that allows the lens to travel outward very much. So they typically used some kind of external close-up accessory. I wouldn't expect a camera of this type to focus closer than 3 feet or so.

Regarding your other comments: look, I don't want to spit in anybody's soup here. I know about the appeal of old technology; I use a rotary-dial phone and take pictures with an M. I just think if you design a new camera you could do so much more than just having it look like it's fifty years old. They produced a great folder in the GS645 and had a great example to compete with in the Mamiya 7, both modern cameras without too much frills, but instead they chose to reproduce a Certo Six in 6x7. For me this seems like a step backwards and a missed opportunity. IMHO a thing should deserve attention from itself, not from looking like something else that was common 50 years ago. If this is just the camera for you, go ahead and enjoy it. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Philipp
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Thanks, furcafe. nt

Thanks, furcafe. nt

furcafe said:
The old folders don't focus close @ all, about 1m minimum. I have no idea what's possible w/whatever modern technology Fuji has available to them, but I don't see how it would focus much closer than the Mamiya.
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Thanks, furcafe. NT
 
How to improve it:

Well, I hope that the knob wind doesn't necessitate you looking through an opaque red window to check the film numbers

I'm guessing it will support Fuji's quickload system

A version with a 65mm lens would be great (I'd buy both)

Other than that it looks great. It adds a meter and aperture priority, that will do for me as they're the main reason I resist buying a classic folder (I know, lazy - I am getting better at full manual control and estimating exposure, but its nice to be lazy from time to time.)

On the subject of metering, I wonder how it will do it? Leaf shutter I assume so it must be body metering yes?
 
Off the bat, I want to state that I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion - If you don't like the camera, that's fine, if you do, even better.

Having said that, a few points:

Firstly, retro design may not thrill everyone, but that doesn't mean that this is aimed only at collectors or that it's not a serious camera or that it won't sell. Simply look at Harley Davidson, Mini, Morgan, Vespa, Triumph... I mean, if two Harleys ride down the street, one being new and the other being 50 years old, the casual observer wouldn't be able to tell the difference. That is being slavishly devoted to retro design.

Secondly, someone tell me about a more portable design for medium format cameras. Seriously, I've only bought my first one last month so I don't claim to be an expert, but when I received it I was astonished at the compactness of it. I don't think I own a smaller camera, with the exception of my little keychain 110, and that obviously lacks something in image quality.

So if there is a more compact design for MF, I'd like to know. Perhaps compactness was made a priority from the outset, and that's why they made a folder. I'm pretty sure modern materials and manufacturing tolerances could overcome many of the shortcomings of older designs.

I prefer not to think of this as retro, but more like an evolution of design, along the lines of Porsche's 911. It shares the same basic design as older cameras, but looks chunky and modern - much more sleek and stout than older folding cameras.
 
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