What's up at Fuji - PMA 2008

FrankS said:
In light of the fact that rxmd is interested in a different camera concept, it is rather off-track to complain about the feature set of this Fuji, which is clearly not the kind of camera rxmd is interested in.
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That would indeed be rather off-track. In fact, what I'm complaining about is that this particular concept was all they could come up with.

To take up Bart's restaurant comparison in a somewhat exaggerated fashion, it's like living in a city where the only restaurants are tortilla Bells and Starbucks. Somebody announces opening an actual restaurant, and when it opens you get to find out that it's a place selling burgers, authentic 1950s style. A good burger is a nice thing, but the choice of concept itself leaves something to be desired. A missed opportunity.

Bart's comment would then be something like "He'd probably complain to the waiter that his burger is not a chicken Tikka Masala 😉", and you sound like a burger connoisseur who's happy that there is now a burger joint, saying "it's rather off-track to complain that all you get is burgers when they are clearly not the food you're interested in." Well, I like a burger every now and then, but personally I would have preferred a completely different restaurant.

So I hope you all enjoy your burgers, and you'll get a lot of opportunity to discuss what sauces and what plates can go with it, and I'll continue waiting for my restaurant and cooking at home. 🙂

Philipp
 
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Might be useful to keep an eye on Matsuiya Store... Camera looks good to me too, very smooth, even plain, design, retro in concept and modern in execution. The 80mm lens is just right. Note that it has three strap lugs...

I've not had a folding camera before, so I'm still confused about when one would carry it around open and when closed. To be optimally prepared for opportunity, maybe best to carry it open and put it away closed?
 
First let me say that I applaud your equanimity in your replies to the responses to your posts, Phillip!

Second, I do like this concept.
If it becomes a real production camera, I'll be interested but whether I buy one or not will ultimately depend on it's retail price.
Haven't sen it in real life but the photos of it make it look like a model to me.
Test of concept maybe? Or test of market reaction?
I'd bet serious money that some one is watching all or most of the various photo boards to see what the reaction is.

Third, Maybe I'm wrong about this but, don't you need a red window for knob advance? I can easily look at the wind "knob" and think that it is either decorative or that it is a switch to be pushed in the direction of that arrow to actuate the motor.

Given the goal of "medium format folder" and using 6 x 7 neg size, I think the model answers to that pretty well.
Rob
 
what kind of camera could there have been instead? a 6x7 version of the ga645? i'm not sure that would have been pocketable, which is the whole point.
 
rbiemer said:
First let me say that I applaud your equanimity in your replies to the responses to your posts, Phillip!
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Thanks! 😛

rbiemer said:
Third, Maybe I'm wrong about this but, don't you need a red window for knob advance? I can easily look at the wind "knob" and think that it is either decorative or that it is a switch to be pushed in the direction of that arrow to actuate the motor.
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No, you don't. There are several cameras with knob advance without a red window. Usually the advance knob is then tied to the double exposure lock, and there is a film counter which counts either the revolutions of the takeup spool, or there is an extra roller for measuring how much the film advances. The problem with the second approach is that you need an extra roller, the problem with the first is that as the takeup spool gets full, it takes less revolutions to advance the film by the same amount, and that if your film is slightly thinner you get overlap towards the end. The Zeiss Super Ikontas have this problem sometimes.

It would be funny if the knob was just a switch. Pretty "retro" again I guess. 🙂

Philipp
 
rxmd said:
More like 1/5. Super Ikontas are just about the best folders on the planet
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We differ on this point too. I find the Super Ikonta to be an interesting camera for collectors, but with an inferior design because of its front focusing lens. A Voigländer Bessa (for 6x9) or a Mamiya Six (for 6x6) can take much better pictures than a Super Ikonta.

As for the new unnamed Fuji folder, I don't see it as particularly retro. It has an electronic shutter with automatic exposure and seems to be made of hi-tech materials. The folding camera concept is a very good idea that has shifted out of fashion among the camera manufacturers, but not among the users, as you can see by the swift sales on eBay and the fair amount of interest on the forums.

Why should a camera based on this concept be tagged as retro? Nobody would qualify the Carbon Infinity 4x5 as a retro camera just because it is a view camera.

Cheers!

Abbazz
 
rbiemer said:
First let me say that I applaud your equanimity in your replies to the responses to your posts, Phillip!

Second, I do like this concept.
If it becomes a real production camera, I'll be interested but whether I buy one or not will ultimately depend on it's retail price.
Haven't sen it in real life but the photos of it make it look like a model to me.
Test of concept maybe? Or test of market reaction?
I'd bet serious money that some one is watching all or most of the various photo boards to see what the reaction is.

Third, Maybe I'm wrong about this but, don't you need a red window for knob advance? I can easily look at the wind "knob" and think that it is either decorative or that it is a switch to be pushed in the direction of that arrow to actuate the motor.

Given the goal of "medium format folder" and using 6 x 7 neg size, I think the model answers to that pretty well.
Rob
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The only conclusion to be made here is that it must be like an Iskra that has controlled positive advance via a knob ... and after seeing what my Iskra can do to a film when it all goes wrong I hope Fuji have it sorted. 😛
 
rbiemer said:
First let me say that I applaud your equanimity in your replies to the responses to your posts, Phillip!

Second, I do like this concept.
If it becomes a real production camera, I'll be interested but whether I buy one or not will ultimately depend on it's retail price.
Haven't sen it in real life but the photos of it make it look like a model to me.
Test of concept maybe? Or test of market reaction?
I'd bet serious money that some one is watching all or most of the various photo boards to see what the reaction is.

Third, Maybe I'm wrong about this but, don't you need a red window for knob advance? I can easily look at the wind "knob" and think that it is either decorative or that it is a switch to be pushed in the direction of that arrow to actuate the motor.

Given the goal of "medium format folder" and using 6 x 7 neg size, I think the model answers to that pretty well.
Rob
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You don't need a red window for knob advance. Knob or lever, you can build the innards any way you like.
My old iskra has a knob and manages frame spacing automatically and does not have a red window.
 
Solinar said:
I can live with the knob winding, but please make this camera quiet. By this I mean that hopefully Fuji will avoid the clack that emanates from the the bottom of my GW690 III each time you release the shutter.

The Copal leaf-shutter is quiet, but the mechanism that keeps track of the number of shutter activations on the GW 690 series is not.
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This is where some electronics would help. An electronic counter with LCD display (backlit when needed by pressing a button) would solve that problem.

rxmd said:
That would indeed be rather off-track. In fact, what I'm complaining about is that this particular concept was all they could come up with.
Philipp
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No, no way. My guess is that there are multiple other designs filed away. This is simply the one they chose, revealing it in prototype so as to get the kind of reaction elicited here. Actually, this is not really a guess as all design exercises come up with multiple (and usually wildly different) designs, and then a choice is made.

You would simply make different choices, and that's cool.
 
Abbazz said:
We differ on this point too. I find the Super Ikonta to be an interesting camera for collectors, but with an inferior design because of its front focusing lens. A Voigländer Bessa (for 6x9) or a Mamiya Six (for 6x6) can take much better pictures than a Super Ikonta.
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I'm not sure. I've shot with a Super Ikonta III for years, and with a Bessa for some time. I'm not a test chart photographer, but I do look at my pictures, and I've never been unhappy with the results from the Ikonta. While I've never used a Mamiya Six, I certainly wouldn't say that the Bessa "can take much better pictures". I know that the topic of the supposed inferiority of front-focussing Tessars creeps up every now and then in Internet forums, but then there's a lot of stuff written on the Internet. From my own experience the lens never left anything to be desired. I actually preferred the direct front focusing instead of the indirect focus wheel arrangement, because you can focus much more quickly.

Philipp
 
Phillip, Keith, and Steve,
I didn't think that through--my 120 cameras have been knob/window or crank/no window(and I think this post rightfully belongs in that other thread now😱 )--and my prejudice for simpler rather than complicated is also showing through.
Rob
 
sepiareverb said:
I hope my earlier post didn't offend.
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Come on guys, I'm not made of sugar, this is just Internet talk. It's not like you have to stand in line apologizing for something 😛

Philipp
 
Well, it could be a rewind knob but I have so much emotional investment in my switch idea that it just can't be...😀
Good catch.
Rob
sepiareverb said:
I've just got a iiif, that knob rewind is without red window 😀

Phillip- I must agree, you've been very gracious, and I hope my earlier post didn't offend.
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The Fuji GW and GSW series did not use or need a red window. So, these Fujis did not have one. Reliable 120 exposure counters where pretty much sorted back in the hey days of TLR cameras by the mid-1950's. My Agfa Super Isolette, circa 1956, does not have a red window either.
 
Solinar said:
The Fuji GW and GSW series did not use or need a red window. So, these Fujis did not have one. Reliable 120 exposure counters where pretty much sorted back in the hey days of TLR cameras by the mid-1950's. My Agfa Super Isolette, circa 1956, does not have a red window either.
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Well said, Andrew. I would like to add that I think the frame counter is visible on the pictures posted. It's on the top plate, right next to the film advance knob:

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Cheers,

Abbazz
 
Hmmh. Seems everybody is happy with the few crumps the industry is offering us.
Imagine the fantastic folder / RF 6x7 - designwise and technologywise one could build today. A camera you could take to Afghanistan or to the rough side of life, small, fast, reliable (& whith a motor or a lever). This seems more like a design study to me. It's nice. For a wedding maybe?

Don't be offended, I do understand the positive feedback. But shouldn't we ask for more?

Michael
 
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