Which Scanner for 120 BW?

[DKimg]

I'm on the market for a scanner. I've been very hesitant on buying a 'nice' scanner as I'm not sure what would be best for the situation. Not sure what direction to take...and hopefully you can help?

Overall, I'm looking to invest on a scanner that's feasible (a balance of quality, age, and price). I've done some research and seem overwhelmed with the amount of information I absorbed and lack of information about flatbed and drum scanners. To my understanding, it seems like Nikon 9000, Plustek 120, Minolta scanners are great but just above my price range at the moment (give or take $2000). A step below, I've read about the Epson 700/750, which heard great things about, and being less than half the price of the scanners I've just listed. Well...

I recently came across a Nikon 8000ED for $750. Trying to get more details about the condition and use but overall, I'm trying to justify if it's a fair price for this kind of scanner, and for it's age?

Which scanner would be ideal for the long-run if I'm mostly shooting 120 (occasional 35) BW film. May do some color in the future but for now I'm sticking to BW.

Best to start with the Espon or CS 8000ED or save up for Plustek or CS 9000? 😀

 

[venchka]

Simple. Come up with a budget. Go shopping with that budget. Be prepared to exceed your budget.
An Epson 700, after you master the art of scanning, will produce marketable 16x20 prints from 6x7 negatives on Ilford HP-5 film developed in Xtol 1:3.
A Nikon 8000ED may produce better scans than the Epson 700. Until it breaks. Then you will have a rather large paperweight. When will it break? Maybe soon. Maybe never. Somewhere in between? Who knows.
Good luck!

Wayne
ps: the 700 is better value for dollar than the 750.

 

[thegman]

Personally, I find a V700 easily good enough for 120 film. I don't doubt for a second that te dedicated scanners like Nikon and Plustek are better for 120, but how much better do we actually need?

This is an interesting article about the Epson V750 (practically the same as the V700, just a fluid mounting thing, I think), vs. a drum scanner (about as good as it gets for scanning):

http://www.simonkennedy.net/blog/architectural-photography-2/4x5-flatbed-vs-drum-scan/

Yes, the drum scanner is sharper, but enough to make a difference? Not for me.

tsliskonaut (Margus) on these very forums does spectacular drum scans, and the quality is truly remarkable, but take away the very high standard of his photography, and I'm not sure if the difference between a V700 and drum scan is all that profound.

If at some point you do take a photo which you want enlarged to be huge and want that *perfect* scan, then send it off to have an experienced professional drum scan it for you.

 

[venchka]

...
If at some point you do take a photo which you want enlarged to be huge and want that *perfect* scan, then send it off to have an experienced professional drum scan it for you.

There you go!

Wayne

 

[dxq.canada]

Old scanners like the Minolta Dimage Scan Multi (no Pro) can be found cheap ... BUT the hard part is finding a SCSI to X adapter.

example: the discontinued Ratoc

 

[Fernando2]

Here I am again... I really wish people would use the Search function before asking the same things again and again. :angel:

Anyway.
Since I own many scanners (V700, Minolta5400, Nikon8000, ScanMate11000 drum scanner) I post my resolution chart scans, once more.
Numbers are actual resolving power in line pairs/mm

Epson V700, at 6400 ppi:

Nikon 8000 and Nikon 9000, at 4000 ppi:

Drum scanner Scanmate 11000, at 11000 ppi (please note, it's only the centermost portion of the chart!):

 

[Moto-Uno]

Wow, those are some rather telling scan resolution charts, but having said that I'm using
a Epson V600. I lay the negatives on the scanner bed, cover with a thin plate of glass and they're quite nice for posting etc. I use it to help me decide which B&W photos I want to put under the enlarger. The photoshop elements software that comes with it is a bonus.
Peter

 

[Fernando2]

Up to 7x enlargements, the V700 is fine.
Nice scanner: easy to use, versatile, excellent price/performance.

But dedicated filmscanners like the Nikon 8000 (let alone a drum scanner) are in a different league.

Fernando

 

[Shac]

Fernando - thanks for this. Just 2 questions
1. There are 3 different magifications shown - - doesn't this make comparisons a little difficult?
2. Did you try adjusting the height of the film holder on the V700?

I have a V700 and a 35 Nikon scanner (4000) and enjoy both
Cheers

 

[Fernando2]

Fernando - thanks for this. Just 2 questions
1. There are 3 different magifications shown - - doesn't this make comparisons a little difficult?

Since every scanner has a different resolution, inevitably you end up with different image sizes.
Anyway you can download the images and play with various resizing; the quality difference remains.

2. Did you try adjusting the height of the film holder on the V700?

Yes, of course. I did a complete review of the V700.
That scan is already with holders at best height.
You can pull maybe a 5% more using Betterscan holders and reverse-wetmounting, did that too. Doesn't change the essence of the discussion: the V700 is a nice little flatbed for the price, but can't compete with dedicated filmscanners.

Oh and while we're at that, here's the Minolta 5400.

It's so sharp, it makes your eyes bleed!

Fernando

 

[ZeissFan]

I agree that a dedicated film scanner is the best way to go. A flatbed will always be a compromise.

By the way, I'm using a flatbed, but I acknowledge the dedicated film scanner is superior.

 

[Fernando2]

Just to be clear: I own and use a V700 (for 4x5" and 6x12). I have a great respect for it: serves its purpose well!
I'd love an updated model, with LED light source, better holders and (dreaming) a better lens. But I won't hold my breath. :-(

 

[Frank Petronio]

Getting an Epson 700 regardless of any other scanner you may also eventually get makes the most sense to me.

First, you can scan decent enough scans from 120 and larger film for at least online posting, editing, and making reasonable portfolio inkjet prints or commercial repro up to page size. Second, you can scan entire rolls of film on the flatbed for editing purposes. You can also do prints and other media. And third, with an Epson 700 you can LEARN how to scan properly. That is probably the most important thing because the skills you learn with the 700 will transfer to any higher end scanner you may use in the future.

I would much rather have a skillfully made Epson 700 scan, edited in a proper full-version of Photoshop by somebody who invested the time into learning how to use their tools than a sloppy or beginner-made scan from the best drum scanner.

Personally I send out to get good drums scans made by an expert with one of the best drum scanners because I do not want to invest the time and money into that myself. But the Epson 700 allows me to identify which of my negatives is worth the investment. And knowing at least as much about scanning as I do from the Epson experience allows me to communicate intelligently with the drum scan guy. I know which are the "problem" negatives for instance and I can even supply a reference scan or print.

Also, for quick and dirty stuff I can make an Epson scan in 30 seconds compared to a good 20 minutes for a drum scan or 5-10 minutes loading up a 120 film scanner.

If I shot a lot of 120 then I would save up and get a Nikon Coolscan 9000 or Imacon and baby it, but I'd also have an Epson 700.

Just to be clear: I own and use a V700 (for 4x5" and 6x12). I have a great respect for it: serves its purpose well!
I'd love an updated model, with LED light source, better holders and (dreaming) a better lens. But I won't hold my breath. :-(

Amen but I am not holding my breath either!

 

[Fernando2]

I agree with you, 100%.
I want to add, that the V700 is visibly better than any other consumer flatbed I tried. Including V500 and V600. The dual-lens system is the key here.

 

[Moto-Uno]

You guys are breaking my heart, but I still really enjoy my V600.....Peter

 

[Fernando2]

If it serves your purpose, it's OK! And with the LED light source, it'll probably run for ages and have good color reproduction (the V500 is a bit better than the V700 here). 🙂