Leica LTM Which vintage Leica 50 is least like the Sonnar?

[squirrel$$$bandit]

My favorite lens is my Contax-mount CZ Sonnar 50/1.5, but I wouldn't mind a bit of that old Leitz look as well. I'm inclined to think, judging from photographs I've seen, that the Summar is most likely to give me something different from the Sonnar--what do you think?

 

[nzeeman]

summarit maybe - i have one and i also have jupiter 8(russian sonnar clone)
they are very different - summarit have swirly bokeh and lower contrast i think...

 

[fbf]

I like the old summar. Very hard to find a clean one though.
The summarit is a another fun choice. I regret selling mine.

 

[raid]

The collapsible Summicron may be a good starting point for going back to the vintage Leica lenses. Then you have the Summarit, Summitar, Summar, Elmar, Hektor.

 

[Bingley]

When you say you want something truly different from the Sonnar, you're refering to wide open, right? For overall dreamy softness wide open, I'd suggest a summitar or summar. A nice summitar stopped down sharpens up by about f.4, and is good for street shooting and landscapes (watch for flare though).

Any elmar will literally give you a different look than a sonnar, b/c elmars are 3.5 or 2.8. Check out Stephane Marco's flickr site for really nice examples of photos taken w/ an older elmar and a summar.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The Summarit's are the opposite of the Sonnar. Softer wide-open, lower contrast, do not clip the intensity of the image.

I have one in LTM and one in M-Mount. Have them cleaned for haze, they give beautiful, dreamy renditions.

 

[hans voralberg]

This is the Summarit in a quite extreme situation, direct light and lots of light sources as background:

This is from a clean Summar, it flares alot

Lastly is the Summitar, which is a bit sharper than the Summar, flares a bit less, still have that dreamy look:

All three are wide-open

 

[jmkelly]

John - How different do you want to get? Dreamy vintage look is one direction to go. Going in the other direction I see my 35mm Summilux ASPH as about as different from my ZM Sonnar C as it can get: corner-to-corner lack of distortion and consistency of focus.

OOPS - re-reading your OP you specify vintage Leica - missed that at first (need more coffee!). What about the first version 50mm Summilux? Same as the 35mm ASPH, it shows lack of distortion and consistency of the plane of focus across all apertures - which no Sonnar can match. It is also appealingly dreamy wide-open, without the sometimes distracting OOF that the Summarit can give. I sold two Summarits and kept the Summilux for just this reason. Here's a shot with my early Summilux on the M3, probably at f2; film was Kodak HD4:

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Bingley had the right idea--a different character wide open. Dreamy is good! I do like my Sonnar wide open (even more at f/2), but would like some different flavors. (Grandma gave me 300 bucks for Christmas with instructions not to use it to pay bills.)

Grandma's check would not get me a 35 Summilux ASPH!

 

[ferider]

Summitar, Summarit or Noctilux.

A Canon 50/1.2.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I had the Canon--it was pretty good, but soft in the corners even stopped way down. I kinda miss it...or at least wish I hadn't sold it cheap!

 

[ferider]

Your Canon 50/1.4 should be quite different, too, no ?

 

[ferider]

So, after thinking for a while: unless you already have it, I recommend either collapsible, or better DR/rigid Summicron. Significantly different signature than Sonnars, for some portraits even better.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

So, after thinking for a while: unless you already have it, I recommend either collapsible, or better DR/rigid Summicron. Significantly different signature than Sonnars, for some portraits even better.

No, I don't already have one, and it seems to me it's a must-have for a rangefinder enthusiast, eh? I was actually just checking them out on KEH. And I don't have the Canon 1.4...I do have the Serenar 1.8, though. Which is also great.

Hell, why on earth am I talking about buying another 50?!!?

 

[ferider]

Well, yes, everybody should have the DR (or rigid). Very much a cult lens, sharper in the corners than a Sonnar, in a way prettier bokeh than the Sonnar, but more flare ("glow" 🙂 ) than the Sonnar. The Sonnar was designed for flare resistance in its day, the DR for resolution ...

 

[jmkelly]

Well, yes, everybody should have the DR ...

I am eagerly awaiting the return of my improved DR from FocalPoint. I like my fast lenses - I have spent the last year selling off or giving away most everything f2 or slower - but the DR is a keeper. I will never sell it. Oh, wait... I said the same thing once about a 50mm f2 Hexanon, and it's gone. But really, I won't be getting rid of the DR soon. IIRC it was some of Roland's comments on the DR that piqued my interest in the first place.

But John, grandma's $300 won't get you a good DR, or a good Summarit either. And now you are asking yourself "why another 50?" as well. What about a Summaron?

 

[elshaneo]

I also have the Contax mount Zeiss Opton Sonnar 50mm f/1.5, my current favourite lens which I'm using with Amedeo Muscelli's adapter on my Leica M2.

But also the Leica LTM 50mm f/1.5 Summarit which is always mated to my Leica IIIf RD ST, I would concur with the others that the Summarit is quite the opposite of the Sonnar 🙂

 

[Bingley]

Bingley had the right idea--a different character wide open. Dreamy is good! I do like my Sonnar wide open (even more at f/2), but would like some different flavors. (Grandma gave me 300 bucks for Christmas with instructions not to use it to pay bills.)

Grandma's check would not get me a 35 Summilux ASPH!

True. But Grandma's check would get you a nice Summitar or Elmar.

Wise Grandma!

 

[Bingley]

No, I don't already have one, and it seems to me it's a must-have for a rangefinder enthusiast, eh? I was actually just checking them out on KEH. And I don't have the Canon 1.4...I do have the Serenar 1.8, though. Which is also great.

Hell, why on earth am I talking about buying another 50?!!?

IMVHO, one can never have too many 50s. Now, back to business: you might be able to stretch grandma's check to cover a collapsible summicron. OK, you might have to kick in a few bucks of your own to get one in good condition. But that's a classic Leica 50. Check out Erik van Straten's photos w/ his. Quite different than a sonnar, too. Grandma's check will easily cover a summitar. The summitar was the precursor to the summicron, and stopped down there is not much difference between a summitar and a collapsible 'cron. Wide open, the summitar will give you a soft, dreamy look which can be very nice for portraits, and again quite different than the sonnar look. I don't have a collapsible 'cron, but my impression is that it's quite a bit sharper wide open than the summitar.

 

[adrianzg]

sorry for the large photos but it's the best way to see how a lens performs. feel free to convert them into b/w using ur own workflow.

m8, all wide open:

prototype sonnar:

summarit:

early rigid cron:

on film, all wide open:

canon sonnar clone, 1.5:

excellent condition summarit:

summar:

hazy elmar:

canon sonnar clone:

clean summarit:

uncoated, fungusy summar:

hazy elmar:

personally, i like the look and the handling of the summar. the summarit is nice too but larger.