f16sunshine
Moderator
Good luck surviving without a Healthy dose of both photography or otherwise.
Why Do Photographers Fail?
- Thread starter noisycheese
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 53
- Views 5K
Good luck surviving without a Healthy dose of both photography or otherwise.
haempe
Well-known
Thank You! Ditto! 🙂
Alberti
Well-known
Once upon a time in art circles the pun was that in America, at art school, you learned to be an artist. In Europe, you learned to make art.
It is not out of nowhere that Conceptual Art was 'invented' in the USA.
Well I would expect the same from US photographers, more poised and at ease with their production, a production they can easily position. In Europe, on the contrary, from this maxim, you would expect photographers more grasping for a connection to reality, to be able to expand on their production; just to experience they are always at the border of failing to communicate. [Nelson Goodman once pondered on the latter subject, discussing how artists in such a circumstance have a tendency to get depressed.]
A bit theoretical, I'm afraid and I am not sure if I find the right words to explain this. As you might understand, I am a European. 🙄
S
squareshooter
Guest
This is not worth our effort. What is "fail?" By YOUR standards? Does a woman who take baby photos with an old Pentax film camera and charges chump change for her photographs a failure? Ia a dude who makes $200,00 a year relying on tricks and artsybabble a success? If you make a million bucks are you a success and if you make $30,000 a year are you a failure? If you can't con the artsy crowd are you a total bust? Bean counters always want to quantify everything, put everything in nice little cubbyholes and wax profoundly. Any way you cut it up it is still chorizo.
haempe
Well-known
Yup, I get your point. Sounds plausible... 😉
thegman
Veteran
Yes, most small businesses fail, in all industries. Combine that with the fact that photography is generally very poorly paid, crowded market, who anyone can participate in with the purchase of a DSLR. Skill is desirable, but not required.
clayne
shoot film or die
- Local time
- 1:58 PM
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2008
- Messages
- 763
In general I agree with many of his points. However I think decaying it down to "process" is too simplistic. I think it's a contributing factor, but not the main driver whatsoever. Dwelling on the minutiae of all parts of the process and believing they significantly matter? Yes I agree that's a problematic issue for many people and it will hold them back in the long run. However there are cases where I do believe the overall approach contained within a process is more healthy than other approaches but do not believe placing weight on that approach means one is obsessed with process.
Example, I think the overall end to end process used by most film photographers is more healthy, artistically, than processes involving digital cameras. It puts less emphasis on the cerebral aspects, it requires a vision (that can't be continuously checked at the time), and it requires discipline.
I don't believe he was speaking about this big picture "process" and more about the "in the weeds" part of it. I do believe that the big picture part of the process does matter. I do believe using computers or other cerebrally minded interfaces saps creativity. I don't think many want to confront that elephant because some don't actually believe it to be true.
Landshark
Well-known
"Why do photographers fail"
Low self esteem, Ego, and GAS is the beginning.
Marketing(EGO) is the foremost. We have all seen work that, in our opinion sucks. But! the worker is financially successful because they market themselves incessantly and to the right people. Persuade the critic or gallery operator that your work is good/great and they'll convince others in the trade of your great talent.
Low self esteem makes you look at others work and think that's no better than I can do. But it's been done already so why try?
Success isn't based on talent or skill ONLY the ability to sell yourself. Two photographers of the same era, Ansel Adams and Edward Weston. Both talented but one was able to market his work, personal and commercial and the other; not so much.
Thinking that the non-photographer can recognize a "good" picture by some set of rules on a web site isn't a rational thought. They're not exposed to the "rule of thirds" "Bokeh"
correct exposure.
Why was Kincaid so successful? He MARKETED his work to the average citizen. It certainly paid off for him.
Bottom line........Identify what the market wants and you're golden
Low self esteem, Ego, and GAS is the beginning.
Marketing(EGO) is the foremost. We have all seen work that, in our opinion sucks. But! the worker is financially successful because they market themselves incessantly and to the right people. Persuade the critic or gallery operator that your work is good/great and they'll convince others in the trade of your great talent.
Low self esteem makes you look at others work and think that's no better than I can do. But it's been done already so why try?
Success isn't based on talent or skill ONLY the ability to sell yourself. Two photographers of the same era, Ansel Adams and Edward Weston. Both talented but one was able to market his work, personal and commercial and the other; not so much.
Thinking that the non-photographer can recognize a "good" picture by some set of rules on a web site isn't a rational thought. They're not exposed to the "rule of thirds" "Bokeh"
correct exposure.
Why was Kincaid so successful? He MARKETED his work to the average citizen. It certainly paid off for him.
Bottom line........Identify what the market wants and you're golden
KM-25
Well-known
I can not even begin to fathom how so many arm chair expert camera owners seem to know so much about success or failure, what a steaming crock of sludge, lol!
If you were to ask this question of the people who actually sign the checks and sign off on the proofs for publication, they would tell you the number one reason photographers fail is their work falls short. Everything else comes second.
Instead of following the advice of some blogging windbag, ask a respected collegue or better yet, an art director, art buyer of some form.
If you were to ask this question of the people who actually sign the checks and sign off on the proofs for publication, they would tell you the number one reason photographers fail is their work falls short. Everything else comes second.
Instead of following the advice of some blogging windbag, ask a respected collegue or better yet, an art director, art buyer of some form.
MIkhail
Well-known
What is that has to do with failure or success of photographer?
Antoine d'Agata is a failed photographer?
Failed photographer is a photographer who does not have his own, recognizable face, and has nothing to say to his audience.
MIkhail
Well-known
Interesting article about success and failure. Highly recommend to read.
http://youarenotsosmart.com/2013/05/23/survivorship-bias/
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
That applies only if your definition of "success" is the same as "commercial success". By that standard the vast majority of photographers fail because they are not taking photos with the intention of selling them. They are taking photos for themselves, their families and their friends - and pretty much nobody else. If someone takes photos of their child's birthday party, then sends the photos to the child's grandfather and he enjoys them, have they failed as a photographer? Because nobody wants to pay for the photos?
Somehow I don't think so.
...Mike
mugent
Well-known
Failure is more common than success. Successful people are successful because they keep trying after success.
Photographers are probably less successful than most because it's very difficult to make a living at something that almost anybody else can do, some pro photographers may do it better*, but not better enough.
I know a couple of pro photographers that are no better than anyone else, in one case, I'd say he is worse than average, it's almost like he is trying to take bad photos.
Photographers are probably less successful than most because it's very difficult to make a living at something that almost anybody else can do, some pro photographers may do it better*, but not better enough.
I know a couple of pro photographers that are no better than anyone else, in one case, I'd say he is worse than average, it's almost like he is trying to take bad photos.
kuzano
Veteran
Marketing work or products is the biggest fail point.
Marketing work or products is the biggest fail point.
The market place is clear evidence that even bad work can be sold....
Sold is the operative word.
Art is the weakest endeavor for marketing work, and I mean aggressive marketing.
The majority of failure in most industries and particularly art can be traced to weak, or NO marketing.
Granted, self esteem is a big function of marketing , but many, even arrogant, artists do not present their work to a viable market.
If you don't present your work to a market, failure is the only possibility.
Like the Marketing Director of a big corporation said at a board meeting. You can all design, manufacture, quality build remarkable products. None of that is of any consequence until somebody "SELLS SOMETHING".... my marketing department.
Self Marketing, or granting high commissions to galleries and artist reps who are not focusing on your product is the weakest link in any industry.
Put it out there for scrutiny and make sure people know they can buy it.
The best thing any moderately good photographer can do toward success is attend two years of business school, and focus on marketing classes. I place that even higher than encouragement to study Art History, which is near the top of the list.
Marketing work or products is the biggest fail point.
The market place is clear evidence that even bad work can be sold....
Sold is the operative word.
Art is the weakest endeavor for marketing work, and I mean aggressive marketing.
The majority of failure in most industries and particularly art can be traced to weak, or NO marketing.
Granted, self esteem is a big function of marketing , but many, even arrogant, artists do not present their work to a viable market.
If you don't present your work to a market, failure is the only possibility.
Like the Marketing Director of a big corporation said at a board meeting. You can all design, manufacture, quality build remarkable products. None of that is of any consequence until somebody "SELLS SOMETHING".... my marketing department.
Self Marketing, or granting high commissions to galleries and artist reps who are not focusing on your product is the weakest link in any industry.
Put it out there for scrutiny and make sure people know they can buy it.
The best thing any moderately good photographer can do toward success is attend two years of business school, and focus on marketing classes. I place that even higher than encouragement to study Art History, which is near the top of the list.
aizan
Veteran
words to live by!
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
"Failures are delayed success."
When you start your own business, you will come to know the above statement in a very personal and real way.
This applies to any businesses, photography included.
Any pursuit in life, photography included.
When you start your own business, you will come to know the above statement in a very personal and real way.
This applies to any businesses, photography included.
Any pursuit in life, photography included.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
I agree with the premise, but man, that article is about 4000 words too long.
Photo_Smith
Well-known
How is that failure? Surely one can be a successful photographer without selling a single image?
Why should something be commoditised before it is considered a success?
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Its the only honest measure of your work's quality. People will tell you how wonderful your work is, even if it sucks, to avoid hurting your feelings. That's easy, false praise costs them nothing but their integrity, and few people today have any of that anyway.
Aside from that, if your work is good enough that others want to use it (that includes both commercial uses as well as simply hanging prints on their walls to decorate), you should be paid for it. All other workers get paid for their work, and photographers should too. It costs you money, a lot of it, to produce.
Photo_Smith
Well-known
Really Chris? so as an artist you prefer Damian Hurst to Vivian Maier?.
I'd say it's the least honest measure of great art, or even a good measure or are you saying the most successful and visionary artists aren't the ones that project themselves through their work, just sell the most?
Being on people's wall's selling millions is great, but it's not a real measure of art or artistic success–just a measure of commercial success-do you remember the millions of crying children pictures hanging on walls? Blue faced ladies or those foil images of waterfalls? sure they were successful in a commercial way–not successful as art!
People who market themselves and are successful are good self promoters, not necessarily good artists.
Photography is not about people telling 'how great your work is' its about seeing the world though your own vision, making those visions, if you succeeded in that then you don't have to show them to anyone to be successful at what you're doing–creating art.
Being successful doesn't mean selling units.
I'd say it's the least honest measure of great art, or even a good measure or are you saying the most successful and visionary artists aren't the ones that project themselves through their work, just sell the most?
Being on people's wall's selling millions is great, but it's not a real measure of art or artistic success–just a measure of commercial success-do you remember the millions of crying children pictures hanging on walls? Blue faced ladies or those foil images of waterfalls? sure they were successful in a commercial way–not successful as art!
People who market themselves and are successful are good self promoters, not necessarily good artists.
Photography is not about people telling 'how great your work is' its about seeing the world though your own vision, making those visions, if you succeeded in that then you don't have to show them to anyone to be successful at what you're doing–creating art.
Being successful doesn't mean selling units.
Similar threads
