Why leica M film w/o multiexposure?

It is possible to do multiple exposures on a Leica M.. In fact I have been working on a project of double exposures all done on my M6 some of which can be seen on my Flickr stream http://www.flickr.com/photos/orenrcohen/
Try rewinding at the end of a roll (but not all the way, so that you leave enough outside the casing to rethread) and shoot it twice..

Oren..

That's exactly what I do! The cool thing about double exposures is the serendipity. And shooting twice - perhaps even on different days - will ensure that.
 
The reason for less than 0.000001% :) multiple exposure images in all photography is that photography is about a single lapse of reality.

Cheers,

Juan
 
That's exactly what I do! The cool thing about double exposures is the serendipity. And shooting twice - perhaps even on different days - will ensure that.

Hi Chris,

Did it too, including studio strobes shooting... That was in another century (for me...) Honestly I consider it another field, with the same machine: like a short movie... Planned or "free" multiple exposures meant the same to me...

Cheers,

Juan
 
The 'multiple exposure is not a photograph because it is not a moment' rule.

That is also why I asked for a definition of a Moment, because a photo can only be a photo if it captures 1 Moment.

It's not a photograph: it's several photographs, just like a movie: those are made with a camera too... Movies are another field, closer to multiple exposure...

You're confusing moment and exposure. An exposure can be long... Multiple exposures eliminate part of the time. That's the difference.

But more interesting is your need of pretending that difference only exists in a rule I pretend to impose on you... No! :p It did exist before I was born... It was imposed on me just like optics or millions of other things, and I don't care about wondering if it is or not a rule or who is responsible... You may not like the image I just posted, or my words, but I don't create rules...

Cheers,

Juan
 
Hi Chris,

Did it too, including studio strobes shooting... That was in another century (for me...) Honestly I consider it another field, with the same machine: like a short movie... Planned or "free" multiple exposures meant the same to me...

Cheers,

Juan

For me, double exposing is just fun. Any classification and analysis is out of my hands.
 
Juan, you clearly have some rules and definitions about what a photo is and what a movie is. I have never heard about the '1 moment 1 photo, 2 moments 1 movie' rule...

I just tried to understand them so I asked some questions.
 
1. sometime i accidentally fire the shutter with lens cap on, at least with multi exposure button i can save my film *my silly mistake, i know :p


hm after having many discussion, seems like no one making a mistake number 1 like me which felt the "wish" for it

make no mistake david, make no mistake especially on slides ! :bang:
 
Multiexposure - is a game... Like lomography... Nothing else...

Pinhole shooting is interesting too, but still no one takes it seriously...

M5 has a multiexposure function...
 
Juan, you clearly have some rules and definitions about what a photo is and what a movie is. I have never heard about the '1 moment 1 photo, 2 moments 1 movie' rule...

I just tried to understand them so I asked some questions.

Hi sig,

No problem at all, seriously... But I clearly see your need of talking about others' rules that only you imagine... There are no rules: that's why I did multiple exposure first (no rule), and then I saw it irrelevant and left it (no rule again). No rules at all with me... Keep shooting freely!

Cheers,

Juan
 
hm after having many discussion, seems like no one making a mistake number 1 like me which felt the "wish" for it

make no mistake david, make no mistake especially on slides ! :bang:

Once happened to me with my Hasselblad and cap on (having the protection out...) The camera has a mechanical way to do it... In that case, it all was a second single exposure...

Cheers,

Juan
 
From page three of the `New Leica Manual', by Willard D. Morgan & Henry M. Lester (to be found here):

Accidental double exposures are impossible with the Leica M 3, but when a lens cap has inadvertently been left in position, the exposure may be salvaged by intentional "double exposure." To wind the shutter of the M 3 without advancing the film, proceed as follows:
  1. Lift up the rewind know and turn counterclockwise to remove any slack in the film.
  2. Turn the rewind lever on the front of the camera to "R."
  3. Hold the rewind lever in the "R" position with the finger, while at the same time holding the rewind knob (in the extended position) with the palm of the left hand.
  4. With the right hand, wind the shutter with two strokes of the advancing lever.
  5. Release the rewind knob and lever and make the second exposure by pressing the shutter release.
 
Lots of cameras had / have those mechanical options, more for that "accidental" reason than for exposing a frame twice on purpose... After some mistakes the game appeared, and then marketing made a new concept to make feel some more people attracted to a model... But a lot of models and brands had it before it was called "multiple exposure mechanism / button...

Cheers,

Juan
 
From page three of the `New Leica Manual', by Willard D. Morgan & Henry M. Lester (to be found here):

Accidental double exposures are impossible with the Leica M 3, but when a lens cap has inadvertently been left in position, the exposure may be salvaged by intentional "double exposure." To wind the shutter of the M 3 without advancing the film, proceed as follows:
  1. Lift up the rewind know and turn counterclockwise to remove any slack in the film.
  2. Turn the rewind lever on the front of the camera to "R."
  3. Hold the rewind lever in the "R" position with the finger, while at the same time holding the rewind knob (in the extended position) with the palm of the left hand.
  4. With the right hand, wind the shutter with two strokes of the advancing lever.
  5. Release the rewind knob and lever and make the second exposure by pressing the shutter release.

now this is very nice solution ! gonna try it out tonite, thanks a lot for the info B.J.Scharp :D
 
well, reason why i came thru this function is because
2. i do landscape with my M2, i do multi expose in certain situation like i'm using my xpan in exposure controlling

Pre-exposure (see AA "The Negative" for a explanation) might be the only valid application for multi exposure - but even that it is a fringe technology, all other applications are more esoteric or amateurish.
 
The reason for no multi exposure on Ms is probably because Leica does not think it is any need for it. Mechanically (I believe) it is not very difficult to implement it.

The Leica evolved as a PJ tool and the big shots of PJ didn't want/need a multi exposure "feature."
 
Wham. Some of us have slammed into gear-centric thought. And, incidentally, fascism. The old "the masters have shown us the way and that is the only way" school of thought.

The "only valid application for multi-exposure"? Please. If the camera can do it, then to take advantage of a camera's capability is inherently a valid application of the medium. Generalizations like "esoteric" and "amateurish" are just that - generalizations. Which, by definition, do not apply to individual images. Every image, every approach, must be informed by and evaluated on its own merit. This requires effort and disciplined thought. AND DEFINITELY NOT PRECONCEPTION.
Tarot cards are not depictions of anything but archetypes. So then, are photographs to depict anything but non-archetypes simply because they are not Tarot cards and are capable of very accurate renditions of a moment in time? Rhetorical question. Then, if photographers have the latitude (incumbent and inherent in the medium) to depict anything they wish, including archetypes, then why not a thousand exposures? Where is it written that you may only depict things - concepts, abstractions - by a certain restricted method?

Juan. You can do what you like. Don't make it a requirement for others. There is no possible consensus for metrics as measurement of rendition as a constant in a work.

Buy an F6.
 
Because Leica decided double exposure prevention is more important than double exposure capability. Personally, I agree & am thankful the camera does not have this "feature."

Exactly. The opposite extreme, in cameras where there is any attempt at all at double exposure prevention, is on some (?all) RB67 backs, where that wretched double-exposure lever can be (and has been!) set accidentally.

Most of us try double exposure at one time or another, usually early in our photographic careers, and most of us find that it is all but impossible to get good pictures out of it, so most of us don't miss this 'feature'. Where it's essential to one's artistic vision, it's not hard to find cameras that do it. Ideally, of course, you want a Press shutter that doesn't need re-cocking.

There are 'work arounds' for defeating double exposure prevention on most cameras, including Leicas (as noted above), but like you, I'd rather have a hard-to-override or even impossible-to-override double-exposure prevention than one that is all too easy.

Cheers,

R.
 
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Wham. Some of us have slammed into gear-centric thought. And, incidentally, fascism. The old "the masters have shown us the way and that is the only way" school of thought.

Not quite. It is a feature that more often turns out to be a error mode - and what is more, a feature that replicates something which professionally is and always has been done differently and with much superior results, either as a lab or computer composite, or on a large format camera big enough to draw register marks onto the back.

I have used and enjoyed the randomness that happens with 35mm in-camera composites - but that is hardly a application that needs a reliable precision camera, and a manufacturers decision to prevent rather than enable double exposures is perfectly understandable. There must be magnitudes more of good, economically valuable photographs destroyed by a accidental double exposure than by the double exposure mechanism failing or missing.
 
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